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Yeshua(Jesus) Vs Christianity

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Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 6/12/2020 11:18:18 AM

I thought it would be good to put parts of this response to agent H in a new thread about Jesus vs Christianity because there is a larger discussion to be had here that has nothing to do with the subject of the original thread. This will be edited to a degree from the original post I made because in that post I was addressing someone who I don't have much respect for and I want to de-emphasize that in this thread. Whether you are Christian, Rastafarian, Hebrew Israelite, Wiccan, Whatever, you should get to know Jesus.

Jesus wasn't a priest or mega church pastor. He was a protester. He was a rebel. He talked about having his own kingdom with his disciples ruling with him. The title of messiah wasn't some kind of spiritual leader. Literally every king of Israel was "anointed" (with oil) so every king was a messiah. Of course Christians don't talk about this because they act like they care about Jesus but couldn't be bothered to understand the culture he came from.

When the Pharisees and Sadducees attacked Jesus, trying to make him seem demonic, Jesus pointed out that their ACTIONS identified THEM as children of Satan because "the lusts of your father ye will do". He said that their father was a liar from the beginning. Jesus said of the Pharisees that they were trying to pull a small piece of wood from their brother's eye while having a 2x4 in their own.

[The previous discussion included the common slander that Aleister Crowley was a satanist when in reality this only really means anything to bible believers, which Crowley was not.]

Crowley's idea of ethics was a response to the hypocrisy and convoluted system of the church he was raised in. And it is similar to the beliefs of pagans and wiccans. He said do as thou wilt (good) and what is wrong is to restrict, inhibit, repress, or divert one's and another's will. (source:

Which, as I said, is similar to:

Wiccan morality is largely expressed in the Wiccan Rede: 'An' it harm none, do what ye will' - old-fashioned language for 'as long as you aren't harming anyone, do as you wish'. While this could be interpreted to mean "do no harm at all," it is usually interpreted as a declaration of the freedom to act, along with the necessity of thinking through and taking responsibility for the consequences of one's actions.[


This isn't that far from Jesus as you'd imagine. Jesus was famous for his rejection of the Mosaic law, shortening it to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". You can also said it was "love God and your neighbor as yourself". There was a need for this, if you've actually studied the law and Hebrew culture, because the law was so oppressive that a lot of people weren't really even trying. There was restriction after restriction and it turned people into lawyers. And because you could be stoned, that's why there was a commandment about false witness because people could simply lie and pay people to lie and say you were guilty.

If Crowley was bisexual then his rejection of his parents religion makes perfect sense. "restrict, inhibit, repress" That's probably how he felt. His parents probably couldn't accept him for who or what he was and the truth is that a lot of children feel unloved by their parents for these reasons and they struggle with morality because the version fed to them doesn't seem right when their differences isn't hurting themselves or anyone else. He wanted to be free to do what he wanted as long as he wasn't hurting anyone. And for that he's called satanic.

People with alternative lifestyles have been severely mistreated by society and I don't excuse myself because I made gay jokes too because I didn't love them. I was too judgmental to care. I just knew I wasn't gay. But Jesus said judge not lest you be judged. The bible says that we have all sinned. So what if after sinning one time you just got instantly struck by lightning? You wouldn't even learn why what you did was wrong, nor could you make any amends. If we hate each other... that's not following Jesus at all. That's why 1 John 3 was and still is my favorite chapter in the bible. Because it shows you that the "children of God" are those who LOVE their fellow man. Period. You can have all the laws you want but if you don't know love it is all for naught.

Do you choose religion or spirituality? Do you really want to know Jesus? Or do you just want to be in a church that named itself after the European version of his title? I fear I have more respect for Yeshua (Jesus) than any Christian. That's why I care who he really was and don't use his identity to serve my personal desires or agenda. He wasn't for the government. He was always for the people. He wasn't for church. Although it was his custom to go the synagogue on shabbat, his "church" was everywhere he went. He "fulfilled" his duty to the law but he wanted to transform people's understanding.

Christianity did NOT follow Jesus. Only individuals, who understood the gospel, and who consume (that is to say, take into their hearts and minds) the character of Jesus Christ, only whose are they that actually follow him. I believe this is what made Haile Selassie a follower of Yeshua after the Ethiopian, and not the Catholic, tradition.

So am I defending Crowley? I don't know the man. I don't know what was in his heart. So I do not JUDGE the man. YOU call him a satanist the same way they called Jesus one. Do you know his heart? Or are you picking up stones because you see other people with stones in their hands? Jesus was the one who said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". You think you know who all these people are that you're judging? That you think are pedophiles because someone else said so, because someone else said so? If any of you had evidence of such they'd be in jail. We have a system for that. And if you have evidence they are pedophiles that you're hiding from that criminal justice system then you are protecting pedophiles so you must not think it's so bad. So why, if you know, why aren't they in jail already? I'll tell you why. Because the people who don't like them, LIE.

JUST LIKE THE PHARISEES LIED AGAINST JESUS, the people who don't like them, LIE.

If I go around falsely accusing my enemies then how am I better than them? My biggest pet peeve is hypocrisy. When I was young I was arrogant in my beliefs and didn't know it. And I was a zealot. That's why I went and still go by Zealot X. I debated people hard, but I learned a lot in the process. And age has shown me my errors. And when I was finally able to read the bible more critically it was like the scales had fallen off my eyes because I had finally found the limit of what I could even pretend to defend. And for me that was women being taken as spoils of war. Especially as a descendant of slaves I could not do or justify doing that to another human being, much less women. And then kill the older women while keeping the virgins to take as wives? ... that was way too far for me. You want to call me a satanist for that? Then I'm a satanist. But in reality I was more satanic (more like satan) when I was in Christianity.

I follow righteousness. That's why I love Yeshua. That's why I love Selassie. That's why I love Bob Marley. And I love my people even when no one else loves them enough to take action against our oppression by white supremacy.

Also See: Yeshua(Jesus) Vs Moshe (Moses)

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 6/14/2020 2:37:19 AM

Yeshua, the biggest lie ever told?

Yeshua is irrelevant and foundation too shakey to be of any significance regarding the saving of black people

Haile I

Messenger: CarterBlunt Sent: 6/14/2020 2:56:12 PM

I personally think ALL the stories in the Bible are metaphor. I used to be mad at the Hebrews because they genocided the Canaanites and so on, but then I learned there is evidence to suggest that destruction never happened, the cities were never abandoned, and millions of people to this day are walking around with Cannanite DNA. So even the historical accounts we assume are true, aren't.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 6/15/2020 4:58:25 PM

GA: Yeshua, the biggest lie ever told?

Yeshua is irrelevant and foundation too shakey to be of any significance regarding the saving of black people

I'm not a believer. But do I think there was a man named Yeshua? Yes. Their imagination has never been that great. However, what I believe is that they lied ABOUT him and that he was a freedom fighter. Yes, he seems peaceful like a lamb but he talked about his kingdom and violent conflict that would have to come. His disciples were armed. He had zealots embedded in his group because they thought he was someone they could rally around to lead them against Rome; their Babylon.

So when we think about liberation, the Gospels is a story of set in the context of European rule and a sort of proto-white supremacy. Jesus wasn't talking about no democracy and integration. He told his disciples to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Everyone (Israelite) knew that the messiah was a king.

And just like the pharisees gain position as leaders and magistrates, our community is also divided, ranging from all levels of financial comfort/inaction to extreme poverty/action. And they were being heavily taxed which redistributed to the wealth to the Europeans. Same stuff, different day. Capitalism simply enslaved their whole nation through heavy taxation. And those taxes helped Europeans do the same thing to other people; becoming an empire.

That money gave them the greatest military of that time; and with it the ability to crush any resistance. Does any of this sound familiar?

Yeshua was an idea. The idea was so powerful and prolific that people could believe that he walked on water or raised a man from the dead and came back from the dead himself. He was an idea so powerful that Europeans were infected by this idea. They became believers. They took it all the way left and created some kind of terrible amalgamation of Yeshua and their own gods but... even though the numbers are in drastic decline, the Christian population is still probably the most powerful voice in the world. And it doesn't matter what age, color, ethnicity, they are because they're all following one idea and so people who wouldn't have spoken previously could worship together.

Of course at the same time, Racism and white supremacy were often carried out by Christians. So it shows how much people can twist anything to their favor like we see a certain agent on this site constantly trying to do. But to be fair, there has always been a conflict within Christianity that has fought against itself in an effort to be better than the past. But it is hard for them to do this without a symbol or idea to follow. And if you pay close attention, as I know you to be thoughtful and studious, you can see the methodology of white supremacy is often trying to show the flaws in our symbols, ie. saying George Floyd was a violent criminal, to damage his reputation so people wont follow. Yeshua was powerful because they couldn't assault his character and reputation. And so even if they are flawed and deeply so, their symbol is not.

Whether its Marcus Garvey, Haile Selassie, Malcolm X, or Martin Luther King, everyone looks for flaws in order to chip away at and damage the symbol. And often the symbol is martyred and more powerful in death than in life. I think Yeshua, though not who they say he was, is very relevant to the black struggle. Just not in the same way Christians think.

Messenger: Cedric Sent: 6/17/2020 2:43:29 AM


Good to see the session getting to a place that I man can reason. The first post seemed to give undue attention to an agent that is running loose on this board trying to infect InI with division based on politricks. I man would like to see InI carry on a reason session with more of an eye towards civility, rather than bringing up the same ugly language or terms the agent of wicked design is pressing on us. That being said, I give thanks to IPXninja for starting a topic like this.

Garveys Africa, I man can overstand the Is distrust of Yeshua, with the concerted effort of babylon to hide the true meaning of the christ from InI. I man know the I does not deal with the bible and I man have listened to reasoning by Prof I recently about bible free life. I sight that, and don’t want to reason on things damaging to the I. The lies of the miracles worked by Yeshua and the unnecessary glorification of his death has nothing to do with reality or what Yeshua stands for. It is with this reasoning that I man can see the truth that Yeshua and Haile Selassie I are one in the same.

Corrupt church leaders that lived hundreds of years after Yeshua’s time created the fantasy stories of his miracles and began glorifying his death as part of the narrative. The message of divinity within all InI, treating InI with raspect, living heaven on this earth, and creating InI own destiny, is all relevant to the saving of black people and is the message of Yeshua. And because of the reality that christ will return with the head of government on his shoulders, with the title King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, InI can see in reality the spirit that resides in Yeshua. Haile Selassie I slew the dragon with his tongue and speak the truth of Yeshua’s legacy to InI, to break us free from the bondage of babylon and see christ in reality.

If there is any confusion of how Yeshua of the christ would operate within the realm of reality, InI just have to look to HIM Haile Selassie I for the truth: Each one has their own right to the Most High, We must be able to defend our sovereignty and protect ourselves but maintain ever vigilant for justice and peace, science and spirituality can go hand in hand, education must be worked for Itinually, I man could go on and on. That is why I man say just because the church lies to us about who Yeshua was, does not mean the ways of Yeshua are irrelevant.

CarterBlunt, I agree with the I that all the stories of the bible are meant to tell us more than a literal story. InI need to see reality separate from stories meant to inspire thought and Iditation.


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 6/17/2020 4:04:26 AM

Respect bredda.

Whether a complete lie or a twisted amalgamation loosely based on truth, the end product is NOT one of a freedom fighter but one of a pacified messiah promoting reward after death. Jesus is merely a pacified Jew. A Jewish Ghandi. And we all know we cant trust Ghandi...

These are concepts in my humble opinion are quite PURPOSEFULLY the opposite of what InI need to achieve freedom from white supremacy, which is also of no coincidence to I.

But one cant run away from the question of why should InI care? About any story true or false told by Hellenists of Europe, about a man from the Middle East (Or corner crevice of Africa at a push) who lived a short pacified life, and was murdered by Rome. How many Messiah stories are within African history which may be more relevant to I as a PanAfricanist by virtue and as a PanAfricanism by genetics? 1 million maybe?

The monopoly of this short story from this small place within this short time frame is strange to I original man of creation as the inventors of spirituality and of civilisation and dynasties, who the f*ck is Jesus of Nazareth that we must always always hark back to. Even when ones outsource and READ about new spiritual concepts it usually is only a short orbit before gravity pulls unuh back within the Bible.

Menelik I is an example of a much more relevant and useful Messiah story for I man. No mythos or foreign input needed.

In closing,

There is nothing above Haile Selassie.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 6/17/2020 9:57:11 AM

One of the things that Cedric brought up, and I will reiterate again that I'm not a bible believer, is the idea of SPIRIT.

There is a unity in the human family that we have forgotten. Concepts like the Tower of Bav'el often have some truth, because as I said before, their imagination was never that good. At some point, some place, humanity did in fact diverge and as we started speaking different languages and using different words and names and symbols, a lot of the myths and legends are borrowed or remixed from other or older, more ancient source material.

The idea of something being ancient doesn't make it true. The ancient world was full of wonder and with that came superstition. We, of the modern day, must sort through the ashes and debris and excavate the past in order to find a common thread; one that can reunite us all in love and harmony.

When one looks to Kemet, not only is Kemet mentioned in the bible as the source of Moses's education, not to mention his Midianite father-in-law who had intimate knowledge of the mountain that most likely was a volcano they confused for the footstool of God. They were a mixed multitude of different beliefs, forced into one official belief by the Mosaic law the same way Christianity forced Christians into Catholicism. In each case the idea was to unify (for good or evil) under one head. But when one looks at Kemet there's a messiah figure and human kings thought to be related to deity.

One of these titles was "Son of Re" and their god-given law was called ma'at. The pharaoh was responsible for both the economic and spiritual welfare of the people as well as Justice.

This IS a "messiah". Therefore, I would say this is where the concept of haMashiach originated. And I don't say this to slander the concept. I think we should respect our history, even if different parts are erroneous because it was created by our ancestors who were human and not perfect. Their divinity should not be confused for the European idea of God being some all-knowing all-powerful perfect being that never makes mistakes. I think this hurdle carries the same effect as what the Pharisees placed on the people using the Mosaic law and the tradition of the elders of the tribe of Judah; where Judaism comes from.

I've said this before. I hate Moses. I think he lied to the people and pretended to be the voice of an unknown God in order to become their pharaoh. The priests of Kemet performed feats (probably having more to do with chemistry and other natural sciences that were in early development) so we see that's exactly what the story claims of him; saying only that his magic was superior.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 6/17/2020 9:58:24 AM

And this is where agent H is actually relevant to this discussion.

These were governments... They didn't rule absent of politics. Their politics simply took on a different form, just like the politics of Hitler, Saddam, and Kim Jung Un. If you're not allowed to worship another god that's the state dictating, not just your religion, but your political views because their view was a socio-economic one. They had to think that Moses was the voice of God. If they didn't then they had to act like they did. The politics of the winner is the one that got to write the story. This is why we say "his-story". And of course the scribes will come in and juice things up, taking artistic license.

There is a trend towards propping up these governments with propaganda. The catholic church, for example, wasn't just a church. The vatican was designed as a state government to rule the Christian empire. The pope isn't just a religious leader. He wears a crown type of hat because he sits in the seat of God as the voice of God for those ruled by Catholicism. And just as Moses told the Israelites to steal gold from Kemet and dressed up the temple with it, the same was done for the vatican.

The pope may be operating from a book of myths and legends but he himself is very real and so were the Crusades and the Inquisition. So were the Salem witch trials. It doesn't matter if the story is ultimately real or not when people do very real things based on their belief that the story is true. Agent H constructs fantasy worlds of Jewish nazis and Bill Gates creating pandemic viruses and shoveling right wing propaganda on us more than we talk about ideas central to Rastafari, because he is under the delusion of Christianity and thinks haSatan has a bunch of human operatives, that just so happen to be people who don't believe in any God but rather treat each other as gods, able to discern right from wrong and live according to their own morality in which hurting others or stopping others from doing what they want, is wrong.

The bible doesn't represent what you, having the same spirit of God that was in Haile Selassie, want or think is moral. It represents what its messiahs thought was right and moral. We, as humans, all and have always worshiped people who have exemplified the qualities of what we call God. Some are distant "stars" but there is usually one who shines bright as the sun. And even the being Christianity calls Lucifer, was identified as "the light bearer".

All these things could be coincidence. I'm a firm believer in coincidence when you have a large number of variables. But it could also indicate a common thread that we can study together, reason together, and come to higher understanding together. I don't think any one of us has all the answers. But perhaps there is an answer powerful enough to unify all people just like they are looking for one theory to unify all of physics. And maybe there's not. But I think it is still deserving of investigation and study.

Imagine agent H, but in ancient times; telling anyone who would listen that Yeshua had performed miracles but then he died and now Donald J Trump is the Pope. Using the reputation of a dead man, taking artistic license on his story, waiting decades after the deaths of all the disciples, Christianity forms with a gentile nucleus. That's not a coincidence.

Constantine, a sun worshiper, accepting Christianity but creating titles and calling together councils to control it, is not a coincidence. That was politics. Of course Europeans excel at cultural appropriation. Credit where credit is due. But these politics have come together in ways that have killed millions of Africans (including black Muslims during the Crusades), the Moors who ruled in Europe, Indigenous people all over the world who would not accept Christianity; hidden within its white hand, a pre-packaged global government.

Think about it.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 6/17/2020 10:03:08 AM

If everyone accepted Christianity, everyone would be paying tithes. What was tithes according to the bible? The national TAX for nation of Yisrael. Yeshua didn't collect tithes, but all his so-called churches do? Why is that? And if they hadn't gone through Martin Luther's reformation all those tithes would be going to the Vatican and if the Vatican had power and influence over the state like it used to have? Instant world domination. In fact, you can scarcely argue that it isn't the dream of all Christian to take over the world. Those that stand in their way? They equate with Satan, but they are those that want to be free. They are the ones who enslaved us and taught us Christianity to make us more docile and compliant because we would wait for a post-mortem salvation. And that's why Garveys Africa is against the bible and any form of Jesus as part of the black man's salvation.

It has literally been used to kill and enslave us. One of the ships, as we already know, was called the good ship Jesus; a slave ship. And we know it was a catholic priest who suggested an African workforce to be brought to America. And these are the same people who have their own myths about them casting out demons and evil spirits when in reality many priests seem to have a desire for young boys; meanwhile Hemp thinks hollywood is full of pedophiles and homosexuals because that's what the conspiracy theory (many of which are cooked up by Christians) propaganda says. Their fear of a one world government is only the fear that this one world government isn't theirs to control. They want it. They just don't want it in the hands of people who don't believe in their bible. And they certainly don't want it in our hands.

There seems to be a spirit that is evil. But which side is it really on? Hitler was able to rule Germany with the support of Catholic priests because Christianity painted Jews as if they were the devil. This is the modus operandi of "white devils", playing people against each other, causing wars in diverse places so they can profit. When Britain had a huge trade deficit with China in the 18th century, they supplied Opium to China even though China banned it. This led to the first Opium War (1839-42) and a second Opium War (1856-60), but they blame US for drugs!? And we trust them to fight a war against drugs when they fought multiple wars FOR drugs??

It boggles the mind.

Asians went hard against Christianity as it tried to infect them because they knew what the result of this foreign influence would be. They understood it. Christians cry about persecution but they are just pawns in a game of thrones. And they are the white walkers.

Of course someone is going to read that and say IPX is racist. No, I'm not racist. I love all people. And because I love all people I can recognize the true threat. The problem was never Yeshua. He was fighting for freedom; both from the European system of proto-white supremacy, and his OWN NATION's extremely weak spirituality-based on the law of a dictator who fictionalized and externalized God and made people so afraid that they would follow him. Yeshua's own people... the scholars of their religion, and highly respected people like Nicodemus, they were basically working under Rome. So instead of controlling the people for Moses, they were controlling the people for Rome.

Of course this is relevant because all of this has parallels between the past age and the modern age. What would happen, I wonder, if you could convince the world that the church had been lying about Yeshua the whole time? That their understanding of God and the Trinity was wrong? That they had butchered and tortured people for no reason? That Christmas and the idea of the birth of "the son" was purposefully tied with the solar calendar, the solstice, the "birth of the sun"? What if you could convince people that Jesus wasn't trying to create some future heaven in space, but rather wanted to be king of Yisrael in order to do away with Mosaic law and free the people, physically, mentally, and spiritually?

Imagine if the millions of black Christians suddenly stopped fighting against us and instead used the over $12 Billion dollars accumulated every year, to supporting black people, black causes, ending black poverty, supporting economic infrastructures in Africa, establishing new trade routes between black people all over the world and major technology and manufacturing centers in Africa.

The dark side of Religion has always been about wealth and power. Imagine if Jesus is the pandemic virus and the truth is the cure.

Messenger: Cedric Sent: 6/20/2020 12:32:57 AM

Bless Idren

Garveys Africa, seen I. I sight babylon plot emphasizes Jesus death as his power and works to endoctrinate InI into a hopeless death cult, but I don’t think that was the message or intention of Yeshua the man. Through the words of Jesus I man can still find evidence that his intention was to support the living divinity in InI. I sight there are issues with some of his reasonings, specifically on the issues of pacifism and the duty to live poor, to name a few. But if Jesus was a man than he was prone to mistakes and misjudgment same as InI. Same as Haile Selassie I. Some things deserve to be scrutinized and changed according to the circumstances. Ultimately I think that is what Jesus stands for and InI need to stand for. To look at problems, potentially outside the influence of traditions, to see what makes the most sense? For Reality. The Living Almighty. InI and HIM HAILE SELASSIE I

As far as pacifism goes, I think ultimately the future of humanity is to live in togetherness and not kill to solve our problems. That will be nice, but Jah know InI aren’t there yet. Obviously if a man was foolish enough to come after I or I family, I man not going to present Iself for blows and turn I cheek. There are tools for every job, and if these tools are available to the agents of destruction than I man need to be educated in the use and keep the tools. There is evidence for this in the bible (Isaiah 54:15-17) for the Idren that read so. So I man don’t fear the agents of the beast.

Living poor is obviously a construct of the babylon shytstem that doesn’t deserve much air time, so I man will just say HIM Haile Selassie I teach InI to be industrious and self sufficient and neither of those things include living broke and hungry.

Bless up Garveys Africa for sighting for InI that Africa has many more relevant Messiah stories, especially Menelik I. I would think the comparisons between Menelik I’s situation described in the Kebra Negast and modern African relations would be easier made than relation to the story of Jesus, for reasons InI can learn from reading the Kebra Negast, so I won’t list them here. But that doesn’t change the fact that already, worldwide, Jesus is better known. So I man not trying to lament on the ugly realities that babylon has created for InI, I man just trying to work in the borders of their construct to expose reality to them using their own terms. Not to save them or because it is my duty, just to try and harbor raspect and Inity on this earth. Also it can not be denied that HIM Haile Selassie I tells InI to learn about Yeshua and his teachings. I think that is so that the truth may be revealed that Jesus and HIM Haile Selassie I and InI are the Living Almighty.

IPXninja, give thanks for the reasonings on Kemet and Moses and how it relates to christianity. I haven’t spent much time reasoning about Moses or his works. I don’t really see much relevance to today’s issues. My favorite passage in the bible from Moses time is dear to I and supports all this same idea that I man have been reasoning on. Exodus 3:13-14 Moses asks “God” what is the name of the Most High his people should use, and the response is “I AM”. Every time InI ponder the name of the Most High InI supposed to say I AM.

I say these things not because I feel the need to have evidence for I choices in the bible, I reason on these things as evidence I man have found in the bible that I INSIGHT is the way. Jesus and the bible even say InI don’t need to live with knowledge of the bible or Jesus story for a righteous livity. (Deut 30:11-14) (Jer 31:27-34) (2 Cor 3:2-6)

I man don’t want to consider any time for agents or how they act or what they may be thinking, so I man choosing not to address those topics. I man sight that it doesn’t matter if any of these characters in the bible stories are real, people with good intentions and agents with evil intention alike do very real things acting on their interpretation of the bible, and thats what makes it real for InI. I would also say that the most effective way to teach the lost and confused masses about HIM Haile Selassie I is to use a language they are capable of listening to, and hopefully overstanding Rastafari. Again not to save them or because it is InI duty like some missionary sickery, but to promote Inity and goodness for this earth. I think the I brings up a very relevant point that what if $12 Billion from black christians were removed from the shytstem economy and supported black people and Africa in very real ways? That would be a huge move towards righteousness.


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Haile Selassie I