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My problem with the term "White" - Why linking the oppressor to skin colour is playing their game

1 - 1011 - 2021 - 22
Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)
Messenger: Jahcub I Sent: 12/20/2019 11:30:40 AM

Geez Che say, "Black people can never become white..."

Well leave it to Babylon. Mostafa Hefny is a Black Egyptian who Babylon classifies as white, even though Mostafa Hefny idenifies as being Black and wants to be classified as Black.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 12/20/2019 4:43:42 PM

"I don't want to talk personally, many blacks are far more advanced than me in taking ownership of their identity, plus so long as I identify as Cypriot and not white, they belong to a bigger group than me."

unfortunately, the size of the group has no such advantage. It would be easier, in fact, for you to get some kind of system going among your fellow Cypriots, because I'm guessing there's no long history (in London) where you rob or kill each other for survival. Unfortunately, our history with each other also makes us suspicious and fearful of each other. Had we been able to create unions and things like that early on it would be easier for us to work together.

Black Wall Street, in Tulsa, was an example of what we could do if we worked together but it required two wealthy black men to seed that progress. It takes money to make money, as they say. Without capital that can be invested (and black banks do exist but most operate without distinction) we tend to focus on survival and ferociously guard what little money we have from investing in each other, while somehow spending a bunch of money on material goods we don't really need.

"he details how the Irish were viewed as an inferior race"

This is possibly in the same way Jews were viewed, as a result of circumstances but not actual genetics. If a white girl brought home an Irishman and a black man and told her father to choose, in what percentage of houses do you imagine the father would choose the black man over the Irishman? White America has almost always been hostile to immigrants they have to compete with. German hatred of the Jews was mainly over competition. The narrative just enables people ignore the jealousy and other emotions and justify their horrible treatment. They still had a conscious so turning someone into an enemy or a monster simply allowed them to not be bothered by their conscience.

But no, the Irish weren't slaves, weren't whipped like animals, and weren't bred to make stronger Irishmen so that they could be forced to work the fields in the hot sun to be whipped if they failed to meet a quota. So subhuman can be rhetorical in one respect, just to be disrespectful and help to justify violence and the KKK certainly did lynch them and asians and jews as well. But there was a lot more with respect to the treatment of black people and civil rights and voting rights. To my knowledge, there was black suffrage and women's suffrage but never a need for Irish sufferage.

"I want to thank you for reasoning with me."

Anytime. I enjoyed your posts.

Messenger: Geez Che Sent: 12/21/2019 3:58:24 AM

Thank you IPX,

I think it is foolish to compete for who has experienced the most racism, my ancestors for example were slaves of the Ottomans, soldier slaves as opposed to chattel slaves, taken at birth, their parents killed, and raised to fight for the Ottoman empire.

Comparisons can be made but as you say there are also differences, and I don't see that it actually gets you anywhere, since we are dealing with history.

History is written by the victors, and some people are trying to re-write history completely, at the end of the day it is our own individual stories, but the past is the past.

You have to deal with reality as it is now, learn from history by all means, but don't try to live in the past, which is what competing to see who has experienced the most injustice does. Otherwise it just perpetuates the hatred.

I don't think I need to tell you these things, just expressing myself for my benefit as much as anyone else's.

Thank you.

Messenger: Geez Che Sent: 12/21/2019 4:23:18 AM

At the risk of doing the opposite of what I just said, the following from Wikipedia:

With regards to suffrage:

"At the time of ratification of the Constitution in the late 18th century, most states had property qualifications which restricted the franchise; the exact amount varied by state, but by some estimates, more than half of white men were disenfranchised."

The right to suffrage was gained largely off the back of racism, by arguing that they were white and therefor should be entitled.

Genetics didn't exist back then. "Race" as we know it had different classifications, the idea of a universal superior "white race" had not emerged.

Irish and in Britain, working class, were considered to be of a different inferior type of life.

I have heard that before taking Africans to the Caribbean to cut sugar cane, they took Irish. I don't know the reasons why the Irish were substituted for Africans, probably economic, though some (mostly racists) argue that it was physiological, the Irish simply couldn't survive.

What happened in the Americas, was that the Irish helped create the notion of a universal "white race" by arguing that they were white and therefor should receive more privilege. They played the system at the expense of black folk.

In the British Isles, the distinction was maintained, although with the peace process it is now eroding fast, because of the ongoing anti-colonial conflict.

Anyway, the past is history,

Thank you.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 12/26/2019 3:21:55 PM

The past is history. Except black people now fight against modern day racism. So for us, it didn't go away. It only changed forms. We didn't suddenly wake up one day to being white and receiving all the same privileges and benefits. Just like Native Americans who didn't wake up only to find their reservations had become states with fair representation.

It has been a slow slog from slavery. Instead of fighting along side poor whites, they were led to believe they were still better than black people. And so that led to Jim Crow laws and different bathrooms and water fountains. We're not trying to live in the past but the future is marred by whites who still think we are inferior and still buy into the racial construct.

It's not all bad though. I mean, clearly, you're not one of the unenlightened. I've been several people of European descent who have impressed me regarding the issues of race. There are Tindr profiles where white women say if you're racist swipe left. I think that's part of a better future. But in getting there, whites have to confront racism in their own people and stop tolerating it. Only then can we see a more systematic change.

But no the problem for us is that its not just history. It's our present and it threatens our future. So we have to be careful who we let in, who we build with, who we grow with, who we call our friends. I'd be willing to call you my friend. Not just because you're here but because I sense a very positive vibe that resonates on these issues that are close to us even if we may not completely see eye to eye.

Messenger: RastaGoddess Sent: 12/29/2019 4:42:38 PM

I hear you Garveys, I feel the same way @ "blacks" with the additional "s". Its often the tone and nasally way it is said. Hard to explain but I feel you...

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/2/2020 12:21:05 AM

I read it with the same nasally toned voice.....of a Caucasian women with a southern accent with a slight grunting in her breath only found in the morbidly obese.... to be specific lol😂;;;


No sa

A so it read in I head anyway.

Messenger: RastaGoddess Sent: 1/2/2020 4:10:22 PM

That's EXACTLY it!!!! LOL!!!

Messenger: CarterBlunt Sent: 1/2/2020 5:34:44 PM

When I say "blacks" do you feel it's an attacks? If I say whites smell like baloney, would that be impolite or right on the money? The accent is lame, but don't blame me if I sound nasally, or when I speak the laughter makes you weak. I did not create it.

Messenger: RastaGoddess Sent: 1/2/2020 10:23:28 PM

This was a general observation, not a personal one.

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Haile Selassie I