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Coming to terms with Eldridge Cleaver - so called "Interracial Porn"

1 - 1011 - 2021
Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)
Messenger: Geez Che Sent: 12/18/2019 5:45:43 AM

I first read Eldridge as a fifteen year old boy and it affected me deeply. "All the pinups were white" stuck in my mind, as did his theory of "race" based on the rule of four (see previous post Race, numbers, labels and perception) which categorised people into black man, black woman, white man and white woman.

The rule of four is very powerful, but as I said it assumes that we don't have infinite boundaries, that their is a limit to our subtlety and being.

Ultimately, thus it is not true.

One of the things I could never understand is why "White" men would want to watch their girlfriends having sex with "Black" men, something Eldridge described as actually taking place.

Now, in the last few years, so called "Interracial porn" promotes just this or more generally "Black" men having sex with "White" women, but premised on exactly what Eldridge was talking about.

I know what it is like to be fetishized because of my "race" and I am very ashamed that I have looked at such porn.

Yet something drew me to it, the struggle to understand.

Now I understand, I am even more ashamed as I see that it was my own insecurities that drew me to it.

I am not "White" but still I wanted to look.

"White" men look at so called "interracial porn" as a means of projecting their insecurities on to those they see as having to face a harder struggle than them.

"Black" men have to struggle the hardest, so by fantasizing about them "conquering" "White" women they are projecting their idea that despite their insecurities it is possible to bring a sexually attractive woman down to their level or lower. See how racist this porn actually is, not to mention that it still puts "White" women on a pedestal, the "ultra feminine" as Eldridge described it.

I am generally against porn, it is for men with insecurities, and that I have looked at it shows how insecure I was. That I have looked at so called "interracial porn" shows my unconscious racism, still seeing "Blacks" as victims, and myself as a "non-White" too, still seeing "White" women as the most powerful, or occupying an unjustified high level. Not being able to meet people as equals.

Some people try to defend so called "interracial porn" as being about aesthetics, but if you actually look at it you see that whatever aesthetics there are in it are deeply corrupted by racial prejudice.

If there is going to be porn, then by all means, let anyone take part, though don't encourage it. But classifying some porn as "interracial" and some as not is playing to the fetish of "race".

Eldridge was right about so many things, he constructed powerful theories, but they are only theories and we need to move beyond them.

The recent explosion of so called "interracial porn" on the internet shows that the Western world is only just catching up with him.

For those of us who knew him from the beginning, it is time to move on.

Thank you.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 12/18/2019 12:36:28 PM

Thank you for the interesting topic.

I'm going to keep it all the way 100 on this topic, but I'm just being honest as I think everyone should be.

There isn't 1 reason that people do things. To buy into the idea that black men all watch porn for the same reason is racist. To buy into the idea that all black men who watch interracial porn feel the same way as each other or watch for the same reason is to buy into an artificially created stereotype. And no one person can create that one stereotype without expressing their personal biases.

When I was a kid, my friends and I found a VHS (because that's how old I am) tape on a bike trail. Sure enough, it became my first introduction into pornography. Everyone on the tape was white. Eventually I got caught with it by my dad and then I caught him watching it and his argument was he needed to see what I saw. Right, dad. Right.

In my young mind the women were being exploited. Even in college I believed that men who got women drunk in bars were basically rapists because the question is would she do it if she wasn't drunk? And might she have regrets after? So for me, I felt ashamed watching black porn because I wasn't attracted to the idea of my black sistas being exploited, whether the male was black or anything else. It was definitely a respect thing. Even now, although I view it as just another job, and women are using sex to exploit men just as much as it is the other way around, I still watch more white porn. Of course now its VR.

As far as interracial porn, I think you have to look past the surface of literal black and white. Even the black women I'm most attracted to could be considered exotic, mixed with different races and ethnicity. Some may think this means I don't like black women for real. However, that's not the case. These exotic features are simply the puzzle of our genetic past being put back together. If you research early African tribes you'll find the San tribe of Africa that have features from every race on the planet because that's where we all came from. So even the features you may not consider African... they ARE African. Traveling to another place doesn't make them any less. Only in our minds and that's the same place racism was birthed from. Now it's true that some features may have gotten more exaggerated in different places. I'm more attracted to a balance between those features, but all can be beautiful. Some people feel disloyal just because they're also attracted to white women. But regardless of who a black man has children with, those children will be black and they will have African features. My children were both with a light skinned black woman who also had some native American ancestry, but it really doesn't make a difference. We all came from Africa.

So couldn't I use that same argument for porn and respect white women the same way? After all, although white women certainly participated in slavery it was only a small percentage of them and they had little power. Perhaps, at some point I had the same fantasy that a lot of black men have about having sex with white women as kind of a pay back to "massa". After all, he had sex with our women too. But fantasies are simply an extension of the imagination, fueled by all the things we've seen and consumed. The fact is that after a failed marriage I started checking out strip clubs and discovered the reality behind the sex industry. It was also the first time I met a white woman who was exclusively attracted to black men. Fun times.

One of the reasons "interracial porn" exists is simply as a means of classifying types of porn someone DOESN'T want to see. It's not just fetish. A lot of people don't care; especially not what the guy looks like because they're only attracted to the actress. However, a white man may not want to see a black man have sex with a white woman while some do and others just don't care. Gay porn is also a classification that I'm thankful exists because the last thing I want is to be surprised by 2 guys going at it. People who are gay definitely want to see it and some people who aren't gay want to see it (especially women). But if it wasn't classified as such... plenty of people would complain. Same with Lesbian porn.

Part of all this is sexual repression. It's one of those things you really don't feel affected by until you do. Human sexuality is multifaceted and complex. I've seen multiple fetish communities first hand. And a lot of people are just out there trying to discover their own sexual identity and what they like. Typically, religion comes in, demonizes every deviation from what they consider normal, when in reality a lot of the "normal" people are sexually frustrated, unfulfilled, bored, etc. and some who think celibacy is the "correct" path, some of them end up into the most deviant of sexual behaviors because they were going against nature the whole time. I'm not saying everyone who is celibate is a sexual deviant waiting to happen. But this is a potential, mainly with men. Look at men in prison. Humans have sexual needs... biological functions that get romanticized and we dress it all up into something culturally appropriate. But at the end of the day its a bunch of nerve endings coming into contact with a bunch of nerve endings. We get hung up on the mental and emotional components. And then we eventually start legislating to each other what we can and cannot do with our bodies. And the result of this control is revolution. The sexual revolution which all of its deviations from the norm is nothing more than a product of our own design; trying to establish what is both normal and acceptable to society.

Eventually, all of this was inevitable.

If you feel ashamed to watch something you may be sexually repressed.

Messenger: CarterBlunt Sent: 12/18/2019 11:22:53 PM

I watched the entire 3d animated Kunoichi series, including the side movie where they get raped by demon dogs, so I can't really comment.

"Even in college I believed that men who got women drunk in bars were basically rapists because the question is would she do it if she wasn't drunk? And might she have regrets after?"

What if women get men drunk in bars, and the man regrets it after? I'm sure lots of fatass fuglies have gotten attention from men that wouldn't have touched it if they were in their right mind.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 12/19/2019 9:06:52 AM


Well the main reason I gave up that idea was because it assumes the woman doesn't want to get drunk and cannot control how many drinks she actually drinks. So even if she considers it a mistake later, in most cases, it's a mistake she was willing to make. Now if the guy drops something into her drink while she's not looking then that's back to the whole, yeah he's a rapist thing. But normally the drinking part is consensual.

Messenger: CarterBlunt Sent: 12/20/2019 1:03:59 AM

Actually, now that I've read over this again with a critical eye, it turns out I have a lot to say about it. I will preface by saying I am a guest on this forum, I am not a Rasta, I am a caucasian dread. There are no kings or gods that I bow to, and absolutely nothing I'm gonna say is of an "Afrikan" mindset. Still, I would put some of your views under my careful scrutiny.

First, the "rule of four". You think black men have a hard time dating white women? Try dating ANY women as an Asian man! Let alone an Indian man. And it has nothing to do with racism, it's science. They call it the golden ratio, which is in everything. I could go on about how it affects different perceptions towards different races, but by and large, if you DON'T find the golden ratio attractive, that would seem unnatural. We all have our preferences for what unique traits are attractive, but these are informed through experiences, not instinct. The golden ratio is a constant that speaks to our very being. It's no Babylon or Afrikan thing. If you're white, the golden ratio is in everything, and if you're black, the golden ratio is still in everything.

I would like to propose a different reason why black men are in a lot of porn. Because they have huge mothafocken' penises! Maybe some people just like to see a giant black pole disappearing into a tiny white hole, and a nerdy Asian getting cucked in the background for comic relief. If that's what helps them balance out their energies, I say go for it. Personally, I find it distracting when the guy isn't white, because I find it harder to mentally delete him from the scene, but I enjoy seeing all kinds of naked women of all races. Do I watch it because of insecurity? Not at all, my jizz is equal opportunity.

Why worry if someone fetishizes you? Obviously they accept you and even find you highly desirable. If you aren't interested, you can always say keeping a Cypriot cultural identity is extremely important to you, or whatever. And if you're fine with dating other races, then where is the problem? You are gonna rule out women for being attracted to you physically? Personally, I think we need voluntary procreative racial deconstruction, and I'm ready to volunteer.

"I am generally against porn, it is for men with insecurities"
And here is where you betray yourself. Do I come off as insecure to you? I have a different take. You are so insecure in your own sexual nature that you shame yourself for being attracted to a white woman. You see it as a matter of dignity, but it isn't, because you're denigrating yourself over it, that's false pride eating you from the inside.

"and that I have looked at it shows how insecure I was."
No, bumbaclot! That you are insecure about it shows how insecure you are.

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 12/20/2019 6:18:23 AM

I have quoted the op and XXX'd out the specifics....

"they are projecting their idea that despite their insecurities it is possible to bring a XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX down to their level or lower. See how racist this XXXXXXXXX actually is"

I can apply this to many industries of black culture.....such as the white race fascination with negatively perceived westernised black music or negatively perceived stereotypical mannerisms.

There is a theory then that cultural appropriation may not always come from a place of racist vampirism. But maybe all racist insecurity too.

What a ting

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 12/20/2019 2:58:29 PM

First, I apologize if any women are sensitive to this subject or offended by this but I do think its good to be honest. However, if you're sensitive please skip over this post.

I have to agree with CarterBlunt. He is 100% on point that it is all about the golden ratio. And really we should all know this. It is the same reason we can look at baby animals and agree on how cute they are. Disney understands this too which is why Baby Yoda is our new deity. You cannot get around this. And it's not a racial thing unless you MAKE IT ONE. For example... we might still feel some kind of way because minstrel shows had whites dressing up in black face and exaggerating color and lip size. But that's because their lips are normally relatively smaller.

But eventually, the things that were made fun of in the past because they were connected with race, now people are getting injections and implants because the idea of beauty and sensuality has transcended race. And now if a person cannot see examples of beauty in another race its likely because they're actively refusing to and are in a state of denial. So if you can't see Beyonce is hot, something's wrong with you. If you can't see Salma Hayek is hot, something's wrong with you. If you can't see Catherine Zeta Jones is hot, again, something's wrong with you. They're not honest with themselves or with the world around them. And without honesty, without keeping it "real", our connections with each other become fake. And we can't truly move forward because we can't really know each other.

And thus we are left with stereotypes.

Although I'm a bad example of this, I do know that the black men = big dicks myth is just that. But we, as men, aren't literally checking each other's dick sizes. Rarely are ANY of the people in porn representative of real life norms. Most women don't look like porn stars and don't have any sort of golden or even silver ratio when it comes to chest, hips, and ass. They're are extremely augmented in order to fit into a fantasy. Women have fantasies too. And so it serves the purpose of fantasy to keep that myth alive.

But in real life, they're not just taking any black guy to bed, expecting a monster to come out. They're more selective than that (if they can afford to be) and so they look for other traits that just so happen to correlate to size. However, google will tell you the myth isn't true and I believe the biggest dick recorded belonged to a white guy. So I don't know. White guys... I don't know how you would even go about debunking that myth and it probably doesn't matter that much anyway. And you may want to leave it alone because for similar reasons cops seem to fantasize about black men being physically more dangerous in spite of the massive amount of genetic diversity we have that makes us come in all different shapes and sizes. And there's a whole industry for men, trying to get bigger to make themselves more appealing to female fantasies.

But with porn its all about fantasy, not reality. Strip clubs... fantasy. Not reality. Yes, some people get confused, but that's their fault. It's a job. And that's why the black guys that get selected by white owned porn companies will always have big dicks. Otherwise, it doesn't fit the fantasy so what's the point in that?

I also agree about the need for "procreative racial deconstruction" and I have volunteered and willing to volunteer my exes. Take my ex-wife, for example. Please. The world will be a better place when we all have sex with each other and either we turn back into one race that looks like the San tribe of Africa, or we just stop caring what color each other's skin is because we all have black and white and everything in between in our family. Homosexuals didn't get accepted because of marches. They got accepted because too many of us have them in our families and we know them and love them. When you love someone you accept them for who they are. But if its not in your family well then you don't have to be around them, don't have to know that person, and aren't in danger of caring. I have a gay cousin who I love just as much as my other cousins.

I also agree with "mentally deleting him from the scene". That's true. And in fact, the male actor is supposed to be more of a prop in the scene. If the camera is on him too much its a turn off. That's why Ron Jeremy was so prolific in the industry. He was an everyman and guys also rooted for him as part of our brains fight to make sense of how a guy who looks like this could get a woman who looks like that. If you're focused too much on the guy you might be attracted to guys.

Why worry if someone fetishizes you? Granted, that person may not be able to separate the fantasy from reality and so there could be problems if you want a real relationship but I've never come across a white woman who couldn't have a real relationship and most of them had relationships as long as 8-10 years and were very loyal. So if you can have a little fantasy inside of your reality... that's actually a good thing. It's like if your favorite food was actually healthy for you too. Being wanted feels great! Especially at my age. But we let religion and politics influence us too much about what we're supposed to like or be attracted to. Pizza isn't an African dish. Am I supposed to not like pizza or feel guilty for enjoying it? Conversely, if you don't like something just because of where it came from, to me that's problematic.

Now there are white women who are more attracted to black men, white women who are equal opportunity, and white women who are simply not attracted to white men. Are they racist against themselves? No. These are simply preferences. You're allowed to have them and everyone does. Preferences predate the notion of race. Should Bob Marley's parents have stayed far away from each other and vomited a little at the sight of each other's naked bodies?

And yes, sometimes black people shame each other for interracial relationships. And there's still some anxiety about bring one home to moms. But honestly, most of that has to do with fear; fear of what people will think, say, etc. Ultimately, seeing the beauty in each other and overcoming that fear and hate, is what will end racism. And is that not what we want?

Watch more porn.

Messenger: Geez Che Sent: 12/20/2019 3:18:09 PM

The myth of penis size actually started as part of the demonization of black men as rapists before the civil rights era. Eldridge turned it on its head politically with his theories and the Panthers incorporated these theories into their rhetoric, or at least some of them did.

Eldridge did actually have a big dick, I've seen his "penis pants" that he made whilst working as a fashion designer, but as Huey Newton later said "Eldridge was obsessed with being the stud".

Messenger: CarterBlunt Sent: 12/21/2019 1:24:52 AM

"White guys... I don't know how you would even go about debunking that myth and it probably doesn't matter that much anyway."
That's where I'm one step ahead of you. I took a peek at all the guys I ever stood next to at the urinal, and it's a fact!

I don't know, I just imagined the white guys in porn took a lot of time to hunt down, and for black guys they just put out a craigslist ad "Big Dicks Wanted", and when an applicant shows up with 10 inches, they're like "Sorry, we only needed 3 black guys for this scene, and the others were packing more."

Messenger: Geez Che Sent: 12/21/2019 3:00:23 AM

"That's where I'm one step ahead of you. I took a peek at all the guys I ever stood next to at the urinal, and it's a fact!"

lol well that's scientific! But seriously, this is what I mean about fetishization. Personally, I think that if you are fetishized as some stereotype and you don't conform to it, it makes you feel uncomfortable, but perhaps that's just me being insecure.

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