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Yeshua(Jesus) Vs Moshe(Moses)

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Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/3/2019 4:11:53 PM
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"Well your certainly no Rabbi."

Interesting.

Although we cannot be sure who the intended target of this was, what I must ask is this...

who made Yeshua/Jesus a rabbi?

What is a rabbi?

In Judaism, a rabbi is a teacher of Torah.

Again... we see this mindset/mentality of someone else having some rank being expected to tell you what to think/believe and to persuade you about what God wants you to do. You can't sacrifice for yourself. You can't read the bible for yourself (or talk to others about it), no "come let us reason together saith Yahweh of hosts", You must simply submit...

The Matrix has you, my friend.

get unplugged.

You are so much more than you know.




Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/3/2019 5:04:41 PM
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@Jahcub

Jahcub: "Jah is in control and rules over us all; but Jah is not a control freak. Jah is the creator of creation. Jah is the one who designed the design. How amazingly awesome the works of Jah are! There is an order and function to Jahs design, and InI see it in InI and in nature and in the stars the heavens. Creation/nature is a system of interdependent multi-layered systems. Many systems working together with many other different yet interdependent systems."

You weren't speaking to me so please forgive my intrusion. However, the existence of order does not mean there is a creator. The movement of the universe tells us its expanding. Earth isn't at a fixed point in the universe. Our sun is moving and we're moving right along with it; trapped in its orbit. It sounds incredible but our solar system is traveling at an average speed of 143 mi/s. That's a bit under 60 times the top speed of my car. Give me one good reason why the creator of the universe would make it move like this; in a way that suggests that everything started from a central point ("the big bang").

And while I can't think of a reason why any creator would make his creation move at a fast speed away from him, and have to make himself bound by the gravitational pull of our solar system, just to keep up without putting his own energy/effort into it (based on the idea that God actually has a physical location where he resides and if not then what is Heaven, where is it, where are all the non-omnipresent angels, etc. [insert more rational critical thinking here])... why do that when he could just keep it still? Wouldn't that be more convenient? The speed and direction of the solar system... is that order or chaos?

I ask this because we all appreciate order but order comes out of chaos and vice versa. Where did God come from? Can you even fathom? How many leaves does a tree have? Is any tree the exact same as another? How much does order predict their growth? How much does chaos? Is the sunset beautiful because it was made that way? Or does the sun's rising and setting have nothing to do with us or our sense of beauty?

Let's not stop there.

Does God design each individual snow flake? How is it that snow flakes look the way they do and no one really sees their design. So what is the purpose of it? OR... does design exist in nature... NATURALLY? Have you ever heard of the Fibonacci sequence?


https://io9.gizmodo.com/15-uncanny-examples-of-the-golden-ratio-in-nature-5985588

(I love science)

The point is, since I don't know how much research anyone is willing to do, is that the laws of physics is what creates this illusion of order. Gravity, heat, etc. they all play a part. In fact, earlier humans decided that these cosmic forces were the primal "gods". This is also the reason why the sun has been probably the biggest object of worship in human history. And every 25th day of the month of December is basically dedicated to the solar deity. Now, why a jealous God would allow Christianity to merge in obvious and blatant pagan beliefs and practices (also Easter), boggles the mind. But humans have worshiped nature in its different forms since the beginning. And they told myths about the mating of different gods to reflect the idea of synthesis. It isn't the conscious work of a deity that affects the tides. It's the moon.

https://scijinks.gov/tides/

Humans took the connection between their lives and "heavenly bodies" to the nth degree which is how we got astrology. Like gears on a clock, enough objects doing simple movement, can create different effects; even micro to macro. For us the effect is always right because that's what we're used to and adapted to. But the same cosmic forces led to dinosaurs and their extinction. Humans are not immune either and we will find this out if we do not stop destroying our environment at the rate we're going. But its easy to give thanks when the temperature is warm. But what will you say when its too hot and people are dying? Our bodies are fragile.

God is in control?

I hate this idea. If God is in control then he must also control the bad, not just the good. The tornado that literally took the roof off my house... was that God? And am I supposed to thank him that I wasn't killed by his tornado? What about the people who are tragically displaced by hurricanes and floods and typhoons and tsunamis? You do realize that this hurts the poor and barely does anything to the rich. So if God is in control then how much of a universal a$$hole is he? Unarmed black men getting shot. Slavery. Racism. Jim Crow. Should the slave thank him for being alive when it was God who was in control when Christians brought him over on the "Good Ship Jesus" (actual name of a slave ship)? We've all been programmed to be thankful to God no matter what because we want to believe God is responsible and that he has a plan. And why? Because we're scared of dying and we want there to be something after; a reward for being loyal... and thankful. I'd rather believe God was incompetent and powerless than to think that he sees all this human suffering and doesn't prevent it. I guarantee you if God ran for president he would win every time and we'd change the constitution so that he could run as many times as he wanted. I'd love for God to be in Control; especially of all the things Donald Trump is now in incompetently and bumbling control over. But I simply see no evidence for this beyond wishful thinking.

Jahcub: "Humans (not every individual) are not in harmony with nature, that natural mystic, one with the Creator as part of the creation. The Tower of Babel story and the Book of Judges show how humans go about falling in and out of grace and love with Jah and Jah's way even reacting and mocking Jah; and create/follow systems that were not in harmony with Jah's Ireation, rather many of the human made systems work against Jah's systems."

You can't have it both ways. You can't say God is in control... but not in control of humans. That is a contradiction.


Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 10/6/2019 12:48:32 PM
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Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 10/11/2019 3:57:59 PM
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Big Ups Sis JAHchild,

The I said, "I definitely agree that the creator is amazing. I just don't think it was the real creator who composed those laws and blood atonement rules. I think that was a human invention."

I sight what the I is saying Sistren. I just see JAH in the Bible, old and new testament, as One JAH. I see JAH guiding and caring for His people from Genesis to Revelations. The laws and blood atonement rules had there place and time in a ritualistic age. These days and this age, the people can no longer perform the laws and rules of ritualic animal sacrifice.

In this age, "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart". InI offer song and chant a new name in these times JAH RasTafarI.

I sight that Jah has sent His teachers, prophets, judges and messiahs/Christ's; to guide InI JAH people. And as InI grow and change, the teachings and the lessons will accommodate, advancing one's to a higher level.




Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 10/11/2019 4:32:24 PM
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Greetings IXPninja,

The I said, "You weren't speaking to me so please forgive my intrusion. However, the existence of order does not mean there is a creator. The movement of the universe tells us its expanding. Earth isn't at a fixed point in the universe. Our sun is moving and we're moving right along with it; trapped in its orbit. It sounds incredible but our solar system is traveling at an average speed of 143 mi/s. That's a bit under 60 times the top speed of my car. Give me one good reason why the creator of the universe would make it move like this; in a way that suggests that everything started from a central point ("the big bang")."

No intrusion brotha, we all came to reason here. I sight that there is a design to creation, that what is perceived as chaos is part of the order/design of creation. All life is in motion, moving forward Iyah and somethings moving backwards it seems; well most movement seems to flow in a torus pattern... Where is creation not in motion?

IXPninja said, "And while I can't think of a reason why any creator would make his creation move at a fast speed away from him, and have to make himself bound by the gravitational pull of our solar system, just to keep up without putting his own energy/effort into it (based on the idea that God actually has a physical location where he resides and if not then what is Heaven, where is it, where are all the non-omnipresent angels, etc. [insert more rational critical thinking here])... why do that when he could just keep it still? Wouldn't that be more convenient? The speed and direction of the solar system... is that order or chaos?"

Well I don't sight JAH as limited, JAH is not limited to a fixed point. JAH is trodding along side Iration lol! Heaven is JAH's Kingdom. The Bible says heaven is inside InI and all around InI. JAH is King and JAH resides in Heaven, which is inside InI and all around InI; in all of Iration JAH resides. So wherever Iration goes, JAH will be there.

Yes Iyah, JAH is in control.

IXPninja you should check the Book of Job. One of my favorite books of the Ible. You mentioned the intricate design of the "snowflake"; JAH also mentions it to Job.

I love science too bro, JAH has made an awesome creation!

All glory and praises unto JAH RasTarfaI!




Messenger: jessep86 Sent: 10/11/2019 8:10:17 PM
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A Rabbi in Judism, one that lives acording to Torah, the Instructions from the Almighty through Moses...
If I want to learn about Judaism I will learn from someone who knows the tradition, believes in it,loves it and has insight.

Im not going learn much about God from a eithiest, nor will I learn well about Rastafari from some babylonian who studies.

Who here can rightly testify on behalf of Moses and Yeshua? Yeshua vs Moses?! Maybe they are on the same team, allies.

A Rabbi in Judaism is a leader of a community, has authority, gives guudance, they study Torah full time...much more than what we in western society call a teacher.

If I want to learn about the Dagara tribe of Africa im not going listen to some catholic with their opinions on the Dagara and call them Mineral People. Mineral people can be related to a Rabbi in Judaism:

Mineral people are referred to in English slang as "real story tellers." In a non-literate culture these people are equipped with a baffling memory, a powerful memory. They have all of the stories. Not just generic kinds of stories that are easy and mythological, but also genealogical stories, mechanic stories, stories of the kind that address the issue of creation.Mineral people are the storytellers who use their vast memories to remember and recite stories about the people and their history. Through these stories, they connect communities with their pasts and with their ancestors.

Rabbis in Judaism carry a oral tradition that cannot be found in book, some of this ancient ancient oral tradition was written down between 200-600 CE in the Talmud.
Still there is wisdom in the bones of a Rabbi, a oral wisdom that is older than the written Torah. Half the story has never been told for a good reason.

If I say some one is certainly not a Rabbi, its because they are not. They could be a teacher, or a giver of opinions based on dabbling on the surface of many wisdom traditions but never going deep into one. If they go deep into one let them teach about that and not a tradition they judge because they do not overstand.


Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/15/2019 8:06:31 AM
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Jahcub: "No intrusion brotha, we all came to reason here. I sight that there is a design to creation, that what is perceived as chaos is part of the order/design of creation. All life is in motion, moving forward Iyah and somethings moving backwards it seems; well most movement seems to flow in a torus pattern... Where is creation not in motion?"

I'm not sure you got the point that I was making. Let's think about it like this. Your left hemisphere (brain) deals with logic. Your right deals with creativity. It's like order and chaos. There is a natural balancing act between both. My point is that this is NATURAL. And because it is natural it doesn't need a creator.

When a design HAS TO BE created then it is not natural but artificial. If it was natural it would be "naturally occurring". Do you feel me yet? From the very beginning there is matter vs antimatter and there was "War in heaven" between those two. Matter won. There was a bit more matter than antimatter.

In the beginning of Earth's history humans could not have lived here because there was way too much CO2. Bacteria came and then you had photosynthesis which then created O2 or oxygen. I could keep giving examples but the point is that, like grades in school, the natural world has requirements to get from one stage to the next and it all happens automatically... naturally.

What you're saying is that the design means that there is a designer. However, if there was a designer then there's no reason for any of the complex physics that explains snowflakes or any of the millions of years of plant respiration to create our environment. And because everything evolves (which has been observed in laboratory conditions with many generations of bacteria) someone didn't just create everything to our current requirements; rather we evolved along with the environment, adapting and improving.

If a creator could exist without, and please really think about this, without any kind of natural environment like we have now: air, water, etc. then this means life (his or hers) doesn't need these basic elements to exist. So why create them if your goal is to create more life? And why limit that life to where it is so frail and dependent on these elements? We take for granted that we have food instead of asking why a creator would make our bodies require food in the first place. Do you know what we've had to do just to eat? Do you know how much suffering has been caused just from our physical needs of survival? But this is the body you say was perfectly created.

Well how is it perfect when it requires so many hours of sleep? We build machines that never sleep. We say God never sleeps or slumbers. So why are we so limited in ways that threaten our own survival? And while I'm at it... why do I have nipples? What purpose do they serve? Why do you have an appendix? What purpose does it serve? Why do I have an over sized tongue that causes me to stop breathing at night? I wasn't fearfully and wonderfully made. I, like many other humans, are broken in many different ways. And even if you say "well that's genetics and sin caused that to mess up" why is something non physical able to influence the physical function of a supposedly perfect bio mechanical machine?

And why does that machine only get 2 sets of teeth and no more? Let me stop.

What we conceive as perfect is actually far from it. But we're very grateful to be alive and humbled by the awesome design and symmetry of the natural world. It's not perfect but its perfect to us. The tongue of the giraffe, imo, proves it wasn't designed because no designer would take it work that way.

At some point this comes down to a battle between magic and science. Science says, if you add this thing to that thing, this will happen. Magic says, I can makes that happen without anything because I'm magic. Magic doesn't need to use science to explain itself because anything is possible. Magic doesn't need complex systems of moving parts. Magic doesn't have requirements.

The whole point of using God to explain nature is that humans don't understand the science of life so this is where you get the "god of the gaps" theory where everything we don't know is simply explained by saying "god did it". Don't understand snow and lighting? "God did it". But if God is responsible for these things then it takes away the scientific reasons they have to occur. And so if there is a scientific reason for these phenomena that we can see then it suddenly takes one more gap away and its like stripping God of a power we only thought that he had. And we've been stripping God of these so-called powers for a long time but it was only ever just our ignorance. Our ignorance NEEDS God.

(so does our arrogance. No one wants a monkey for an uncle.)

The design in nature is caused by the nature of the elements themselves. It's kinda like building blocks. You can stack them together because they have flat surfaces. When you're building something with them you are aware of those surfaces and use them to your advantage. But if you dumb a bunch of blocks on the floor it is likely that some will end up on top of others. Even though there was chaos, some random block will end up stacked on another block. Nature simply does this an infinite number of times and the characteristics of groups of blocks changes how they interact with other groups of blocks. So we can build from these blocks without being the ones to MAKE the blocks.

But if you were magic why would you need to use blocks at all? If you wanted create a castle, just create a castle. Why stack blocks if you don't have to? Why does anything in creation make sense if it doesn't have to? If it has to follow the rules of physics then it suggests that even some magical being we imagine must have to follow rules and laws himself! Otherwise, why would he? So which came first? The creator? or the rules that his creations all abide by? And if his creation must follow the rules of physics, then how is he not also bound to the same rules?

A star doesn't need to know or understand its own gravity in order to have gravity. It has gravity simply by virtue of having mass. No one created the gravity of a star. It's a natural consequence of its physiology. Everything in nature is the same way. Everything has traits that interact based on the laws of physics. If you're telling me God created life by speaking it into existence but that life is based on cells and those cells have tiny engines inside and a tiny computer and database inside, I'd say your mode of creation (magic) doesn't fit with the logical nature of creation itself.

But this is, again, where the gaps come in. It's hard to imagine how that tiny computer got there. Because we're used to thinking in terms of artificial and mechanical systems; light switches. A single switch is very simple but add another switch and now its a system twice as complex. A single cell organism is very simple but add another cell and now its twice as complex. The complexity we experience is an integration on the macro scale of all these very tiny systems. Our own brains achieve consciousness, not by one lone neuron, but many working together. It is through that cooperation that complexity and design is achieved. When you have molecules working together they can connect in different patterns by virtue of their shape which creates points at which they are more likely to bond. Men and women... have "shapes" that create points at which we're more likely to bond. It all seems to be too much to conceive of and yet its not too much because one mind doesn't conceive of it all. It's an infinite number upon an infinite number of microscopic systems, all cooperating to achieve, not the whole world, but their own function. Each molecule in their air is unaware of its place in the "sky" just like each of your cells is unaware that it is part of your body. Earth is unaware of its place in the solar system; the solar system, the galaxy, the galaxy, the universe.

We're always trying to understand things by simplification. ONE GOD is the most simplistic answer you could possibly think of. But the universe as an infinite amount of matter with an infinite amount of possibilities. It is a system of systems of systems of systems of systems. Each system builds upon itself. And the more you can zoom out the more you see a different design that reflects both order and chaos.


Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/15/2019 1:39:15 PM
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@jessep86

"A Rabbi in Judism, one that lives acording to Torah, the Instructions from the Almighty through Moses...
If I want to learn about Judaism I will learn from someone who knows the tradition, believes in it,loves it and has insight."

short answer:
While I take your point, it is a very limited and narrow view. It's like looking at an object straight on and saying its a square when its really a cube, or a circle that's really a cylinder. You're ignoring the journey. When you see a tree, did it start that way? Or was it just a tiny seed at one point? Even if someone isn't a believer now doesn't mean they weren't at any point during their research and study. In fact, many religious scholars and pastors who must go through seminary lose their faith before graduation. What does that tell you? Does this invalidate everything they have to say? Or did they simply learn more things which contradicted their beliefs enough that they were forced to change their beliefs?

And why do you assume the Almighty spoke through Moses?

Long answer:

When I first learned about the bible it was as a Christian. I took my beliefs very seriously which led me to study more and more. I became a zealot. I wasn't satisfied with the doctrines of the church I was raised in so eventually I looked outside that bubble. It only confirmed my suspicions.

My father showed me a book that contained about 7 different pre-trinity views that existed in the early Christian era, really before Christianity truly became its own religion. Because of course, Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was Jewish. So I had to think outside the box that I was in. I was a Christian but should I be? Why did Christianity begin in the first place? Who started it and why? All these questions and more were suddenly very relevant. Christianity basically decided, for everyone, which pre-trinity view they were going to go with as if the other views weren't valid interpretations and as if no other interpretations possibly existed. They were just removing that whole debate and doing the thinking for all Christians.

But if I was a SDA and I ONLY sought to learn from other Seventh Day Adventist Christians then what's the likely hood that the universe rolled the dice and I was born into the correct denomination of the correct religion of the correct philosophy? And what if you were born Hindu? How would you entertain the thought that Christianity was correct without entertaining the thought that Hinduism wasn't? But if you only spoke to devout Hindus why would you doubt it?

I was a Christian
I was a Messianic Jew
I was a Hebrew Israelite

I was a believer as all these things. I know Christianity as a Christian would know it and then some because I was a Christian. And then some. And I remember watching youtube videos from a certain person who was extremely well versed and suddenly he went non-messianic and suddenly he turned atheist and I remember my disappointment as I wondered what could have happened. I was thinking about his faith, not his academic ability to integrate and process information.

Whether someone believes or not doesn't really make a difference. Actually, belief can make it a lot harder to process information about your belief because you have your own bias to contend with. I will tell you now that I don't like being wrong. Therefore, when I encounter conflicting information I try to prove it wrong. If I can't do that then I have to entertain the possibility that I'm wrong and that I need to change my position. That's harder for some to do because they wrap their identity up into their beliefs. So in order to defend their beliefs they defend themselves. And that was me too as a Christian. I just knew I was right because I assumed the bible was right. But my assumptions were flawed.

The reason why I like science is that it is a quest for knowledge and truth. It isn't a presentation of truth. It's a quest. In order for something to become scientific fact it has to be falsifiable. In other words, if no one can prove you wrong then we cannot accept your claim that you're right.

Rabbi also suffer from this. People repeat the same stories they heard from their ancestors. That assumes their ancestors were right. One of the problems with the Mosaic dynasty is that dissent wasn't tolerated. If you didn't believe in Yahweh its not like you were allowed to write books. The only accepted narrative was that of Moses. This is clearly visible using the bible. Rabbinic traditions is more of a mess if you actually study it because rabbis would inject their own opinions and questions projected into the text. So if, for example, you asked 3 different rabbis about where other humans came from outside of Adam and Eve you might get different answers because every question cannot draw from a single or pure source. We can also see this in the many different manuscripts. The process doesn't somehow become less problematic because of oral traditions. It becomes MORE. The Johanine comma, for example, was flat out inserted into the bible. It's not even supposed to exist. And yet it does. And now people quote it as if those words were of equal weight and value.

No one is going to get everything right or wrong because of their beliefs. But the more you study the closer you come to the boundary of not believing the thing you're studying. I'll give you a example everyone is familiar with.

Donald Trump. His support among republicans is amazing and yet outside the bubble which claims he is a genius, he is possibly the worst most corrupt POTUS in American history. How can these views be so polarized? It's all about the bubble. Even looking outside the bubble while inside can distort the world outside the bubble. Outside the bubble it seems obvious. Like how many people does Trump have to scam and get sued by? How many women have to accuse him of sexual misconduct where he's actually paid off multiple women? But Trump has die hard followers who believe everything he says. Many farmers however, were like "Wait... hold on... this is hurting us." so their bubbles started popping.

To many people Moses is like their Trump. If you believe everything Moses said then you must believe God told him what to say and it was God making these major decisions; including the decision to murder/execute non-believers. This act would be unconscionable in the modern era. The West demonizes radical Islam for having this view and yet it is a view entirely rooted in Judaism. Israel simply was conquered and therefore lacked the ability to become an empire themselves. But that was the career track that younger Israel was set on. Canaan was just the beginning. But if you're inside that bubble then you're only hearing one side of the story. And you're likely going to believe that one side because you don't have other sides to compare it to. If you believe, as most do, that God is inherently righteous and good then any order to kill people, you will follow. I asked a room full of believers if God told you to kill someone would you do it. Only one person confidently and without hesitation said they would. I think everyone else was still weighing the moral implications because our morality now is more developed than that of the average Israelite back then. Not saying we're superior, but rather we have thousands of years of history that we have learned from. They did not.

It's all about knowledge and wisdom which provides perspective. If you want to duplicate someone else's answer that's fine. Just read their answer. And for that matter, only read the bible if you want to know the bible. Don't even read what Yeshua/Jesus says about the bible because that's a second non-source opinion and at the time that he lived he was just an unsanctioned rabbi from Galilee and the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees were questioning him and his interpretation. I've come to the belief that Yeshua wanted to reform Judaism. However... he would have known the constraints of that proposition; that it was political as well as religious, and that he could only push things as far as a liberal interpretation of the Torah would allow. And that's because of a limitation on the part of believers thinking inside that prescribed box. But I think he got out of that box and paid the ultimate price for doing so.




Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 10/16/2019 3:00:24 PM
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IXPninja said, "When a design HAS TO BE created then it is not natural but artificial. If it was natural it would be "naturally occurring". Do you feel me yet?"

And, "We're always trying to understand things by simplification. ONE GOD is the most simplistic answer you could possibly think of. But the universe as an infinite amount of matter with an infinite amount of possibilities. It is a system of systems of systems of systems of systems. Each system builds upon itself. And the more you can zoom out the more you see a different design that reflects both order and chaos."

JAH is the Origin, the Original, the Originator. What JAH creates is natural. You say ONE GOD is the most simplistic answer one can think of. Hahaha well it is and at the same time it is the most awesome and complex answer one can think of.

JAH wrote it all in the stars long long long time ago. The first Gospels are written in the stars. Those stories are told and performed on the smallest micro scale and on the largest macro scale. Do you know what role you play? Do you know what star you are? Who are you in the Bible? Do you even know that your story is in it and that your star is in the sky?

JAH has no limits both making the rock that he can't lift and then lifting it lol. Creating and using the laws of physics and then defying them.

JAH can do all things
RastafarI knows


Messenger: Angel in Zion Sent: 10/16/2019 4:31:54 PM
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Jahcub Onelove Respect!!!!

Do you know what role you play? Do you know what star you are? Who are you in the Bible? Do you even know that your story is in it and that your star is in the sky?

They just read and don't see who they are in history. It is sad. All the knowledge but no connection.


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