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Yeshua(Jesus) Vs Moshe(Moses)

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Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 9/28/2019 9:09:35 PM

"Is this the ever-living one, the source of all creation, making laws and then getting tired of people keeping them? Or is this a demigod speaking, one who changes his mind often?"

Again, Jah is One. Not two, not one old and one new: Jah is Iternal and One.

Sin and Burnt Offerings are not the only offerings to Jah. There is also the Grain and Drink Offerings. And in the Book of Psalms we read, "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." (Psalm 51:17).

In Isaiah, The people were not keeping to the spirit of the law. It was not what they offered, rather it was how they went about making their offering. No remorse for their sins, no love in their hearts; rather they sinned boastfully as if they were from Sodom.

More from the Book Isaiah: "The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves."
"Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!"

Same with Cain. It's not that he offered plants and not animal; it's how Cain offered the plants that Jah had no respect for Cain's offering.

Jah wants His people obey Him out of their love and gratitude for Him, for all that Jah has done and for all that Jah is doing now, InI should give thanks daily and nightly.

1 Samuel 15:22
"And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams."

Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 9/29/2019 2:41:43 AM

Give thankhs for the I thoughts.
But the point of my question at the end of that post was meant to imply the last part of it is the answer - that both the books of Moses and the book of Isaiah are just human interpretations of what they think the divine being wants (or maybe not even that, but just messages phrased in a religious sense to gain control over a group of people).
Your explanation goes against my own interpretation of the divine being, because (as a Modest Mouse song says) "who would wanna be such a control freak?" The whole story of creation a the bible puts it doesn't make sense, it seems like there was no purpose at all. Make people, set them up to fail, set up a system of payment that will never work, offer your own son/yourself as a payment instead, people who don't accept this will not be saved from the trap you yourself set up.. none of it seems to be congruent with divinity. Why even do it at all?

Messenger: jessep86 Sent: 9/29/2019 11:34:14 PM

Well your certainly no Rabbi.

Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 10/1/2019 2:51:56 AM

Greetings Ras Jesse
I don't know if that comment was directed toward IPXninja or to me.
It's definitely true that I am not a rabbi. That was never something I aspired to be! But I don't see why that should disqualify me from having opinions on the writings in the bible or in another other books. Nor should it disqualify IPXninja, him not being a rabbi. We all have a mind to reason, that is what reasoning is about - using our rational minds to figure out answers to questions of life.

Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 10/2/2019 11:40:12 AM

Give thanks Jah Child,

Sistren the I said,""who would wanna be such a control freak?" The whole story of creation a the bible puts it doesn't make sense, it seems like there was no purpose at all. Make people, set them up to fail, set up a system of payment that will never work, offer your own son/yourself as a payment instead, people who don't accept this will not be saved from the trap you yourself set up.. none of it seems to be congruent with divinity. Why even do it at all?"

Jah is in control and rules over us all; but Jah is not a control freak. Jah is the creator of creation. Jah is the one who designed the design. How amazingly awesome the works of Jah are! There is an order and function to Jahs design, and InI see it in InI and in nature and in the stars the heavens. Creation/nature is a system of interdependent multi-layered systems. Many systems working together with many other different yet interdependent systems.

The point of saying all that is to say this: Humans fell out of order/harmony with systems of creation; like how cells can fall out of order with the cell cycle system and can become cancers on the body. Humans fell out of their roll in nature and most became like cancers on the earth: building tumor like systems that work against nature/the earth rather than with nature. Check how the industrialized agriculture system is creating tumors all over the earth.

Humans (not every individual) are not in harmony with nature, that natural mystic, one with the Creator as part of the creation. The Tower of Babel story and the Book of Judges show how humans go about falling in and out of grace and love with Jah and Jah's way even reacting and mocking Jah; and create/follow systems that were not in harmony with Jah's Ireation, rather many of the human made systems work against Jah's systems.

From Babel to Egypt to Babylon to Rome to Britian and the Americas, much of western medicine, industrialized agriculture; humans continue to build systems that are not in harmony with Jah's systems.

What Jah has made is good, amazing and awesome truly. When humans look to nature for design; we create things that are not only beautiful, we create things that are multi-functional, highly efficient, and sustainable and we grow and our systems will produce more than they and we can consume.

Jah made InI to grow flourish in Jah's garden. Humans chose to do other than Jah's way. At any time we can choose to follow Jah's way and trod forward to Zion. Jah gives InI the choice: progress and move forward following Jah's way. Or digress and move backward following Babylon's way.

Jah never fail I yet. Jah has made humans and has cared for them providing for all our needs. From the times of Moses to Iyesus Kristos to Haile Selassie, now then before and after; Jahs has been guiding and providing.

Jah raises His people from the dust of the earth onto divinity. There was a time of animal sacrifice, that changed with Iyesus Kristos, and InI are progressing forward through His and Her Imperial Majestlies teachings and example.

Haile Selassie I
JAH RasTafarI

Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 10/3/2019 2:50:08 AM

Hail bredren JAHcub
I definitely agree that the creator is amazing. I just don't think it was the real creator who composed those laws and blood atonement rules. I think that was a human invention.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/3/2019 3:58:57 PM


Sorry, I've been busy with a deadline at work but you have asked some truly excellent questions. The answers... are probably going to be highly complicated because although we attribute the first 5 books to Moses we really don't know who wrote them because part of the events extend past his death. However, I do believe the sacrificial system existed in "common law" form prior to Moses. Why? Well because I don't think Moses would have wanted that previous system because anyone could offer the sacrifice. You didn't need a priest. Moses grew up under priests. And I believe that he saw the usefulness of that position as a means of profit and control. The priests knew things the masses didn't and that knowledge was power and giving limited access to that knowledge created an imbalance of power similar to the effect of racism/white supremacy. Image an entire lineage of, not white people, but priests. And these priests were naturally regarded as being "closer to God" than the rest of the mere mortals and thus you had to bring offerings to the priest in order to appease God.

Let's just marinate on that for a minute. *sigh*

I believe it is more likely that Moses took the system meant as a deterrent and perverted it into a profit system. Now that someone else is doing the sacrificing and can counsel you about what to bring, now you have a profit motive. Right? So now that you have a profit motive you can imagine that corruption would follow not too far behind and would lead to more sacrifices. Where initially the representatives of the priesthood would say "oh yeah, God loves the smell of your offerings. MMMmmmm mmmm". If the priests later where overwhelmed with more meat than they could eat well then how would they dispose of it all? So too little = not enough food while too much = you're drowning us in garbage. Think about it. Those sacrifices didn't magically disappear.

So then now we have a perfect (imho) motivation for the contradictory messages "from God". And of course you're right. It was never God. God is supposed to know the future and therefore wouldn't implement a system that would be totally wasted; including the supposed sacrifice of a man. Has that sacrifice stopped Christians from sinning? No... they simply use it as the PAYMENT which, as we've discussed, was not the original intent and is more likely simply a corrupt perversion of the idea of sacrifice.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/3/2019 4:01:00 PM

But... I think Yeshua/Jesus wasn't necessarily a believer like people assume. In order to be someone like Moses or David or Jesus I think you'd be hard pressed to actually be a believer and not simply use the belief in circulation. If you were a believer how would you ever dare claim a connection with God or that God told you something? Unless he actually did, but he didn't. I think I could prove that in every case, the person writing the story is a human writing from his own limited perception and thoughts. That's why the bible doesn't really contain any alien knowledge or anything that we can scientifically determine must have come from a non-human. We just make excuses to support whatever our beliefs are.

That's a natural part of the brain's function. It's not that the brain wants to believe. It's more like everything you believe or think you know is just data to it. And as "data" your brain doesn't know what's true or false; nor does it care. You need an ego to care. And if it doesn't really care then it only cares about not having "conflicts" in its "database". This is why we have cognitive bias, cognitive dissonance, etc. Your brain's grasp on reality is only through its collection of "data".

Seems like I went off on a tangent but I believe this is important to understand if you're trying to unlock the mysteries of the bible; because we're all viewing it through a lens that we ourselves control the curvature of. We can be as near or far sighted as we want to be. Growing up I wanted to believe everyone was telling the truth because I was naive and didn't know my own species. But humans often lie, especially when there's a motive. Why lie about something holy or sacred? Well if its not holy or sacred to the liar then its not a problem. And the bible records several instances of its own heroes lying and being lied to. Genesis is full of lies and deception. Think about it.

We focus on the first sin being Eve eating the apple. But the first deception was God telling Adam that in the day that he ate the fruit he would die. That wasn't true. Also, the fact that the humans were left "alone" in the garden while this whole experiment with free will played out. In fact, this makes no sense if it was God because any God who knows the future would know whether or not they would eat the fruit and there would be no need to even make the tree in the first place.

However, the story works as an allegory and this is probably what the original writer intended. I say writer but that's not correct. These early stories were more likely passed down through "oral traditions" long before they started writing. And stories like "The Epic of Gilgamesh" were basically incorporated into their own historical lore (basically everyone on the academic side knows the bible borrowed from other cultures). But since the author of the Hebrew version never knew the extent of the flood and didn't have eyes around the world (nor did he know science) he wrote it as a global flood when it was really a local flood. Let's keep in mind that early humans had zero means of understanding how big this planet actually is. So why would they even consider how long it would take for animals to migrate from other continents thousands of miles away when they didn't know multiple thousands of miles even existed?

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/3/2019 4:01:48 PM

So it is more likely that the original intent and purpose was to use these myths and legends as allegories to teach each other moral values. You cannot convince me that a god would say that the burning flesh of an animal smells good if said god has never eaten said animal meat before. Our brains, I believe, play a big part in associating certain smells with the taste of that food on our tongues. But if you don't need to eat because you're an immortal being why would you ever partake in the flesh of a dead animal? Even animals don't kill other animals outside of their own survival.

Of course the humans that keep telling us what "the Lord" wants are usually those whose profession it is to tell us. And the reason the profession exists is because we have accepted the belief that it should exist. So instead of people sacrificing on their own they became convinced that someone else should do it for them. Instead of reading the bible on their own someone convinced them that someone else should teach it to them. I'm not against people specializing in a field, but this one's a little weird. Think about it. Pastors don't simply teach the bible. Their main job is to persuade the audience of what God wants them to do. You could 100% get that just from reading the book yourself. And every person could read (if they wanted to) the same way we read every other book. Some books you learn so you know that subject and someone may use that book to teach you that subject. But that's not what pastors do. Pastors go to school and are taught about the bible so that they can figure out the best ways to persuade the audience about what God wants them to do. And part of what God always seems to want is money. Go figure. But for Pastors, since they're not priests, often they simply get paid indirectly, in exchange for preaching. So therefore the profit motive says, better sermons = happy customers = repeat customers = more money. And thus weak pastors have small congregations and pastors who preach "better" sermons tend to have larger congregations. My point is it's an industry like any other. It's our faith that makes it seem less so.

But for as long as people keep telling you what God wants when has it actually resulted in humans rejecting sin? In other words, when has it worked? Isn't it all just a failed experiment? And as such, why would an all powerful God who once killed everyone on earth (according to Genesis) and then threatened to do the same with the Israelites (according to Exodus) and then do the same to all sinners in the judgment (according to Revelation), why would this God not see that none of it is working or has ever worked? When did it ever work? So why get involved at all if he can't stop sin? And if he wants to be involved in spite of sin then what's stopping him?

Why not appear before the United Nations and start telling every government to stop human trafficking, tell the rich to give to the poor, etc? Maybe that wouldn't fix everything immediately but how many people would it help? What is he waiting for? Is he planning to swoop in to play the hero at the start of WWIII? IV? How many have died to this point? How many people were enslaved? Why not come after slavery started in America and said "yeah no. I know where is going." If God suddenly showed up and everyone could see him do you really think no one would believe things could and would have gotten worse? So who are we trying to prove something to? We're not immortal beings. I shouldn't even be alive having the conversation if God had saved a previous generation so how is salvation meant for me? Or you? Or anyone else? And while we wait for this God we continue to be our own worst enemies and its mostly people who think they know what God wants that seem to be some of the biggest obstacles to progress.

All that sounds negative but what we have to do is take on the "SPIRIT" of the divine... taking all of that positive belief and energy we put into pleasing God and become that personification of God that we believe in. I think this is what Yeshua was trying to teach. Get rid of the middleman. Get rid of the priest. Get rid of the pastor and anyone with a profit motive, telling you what God wants you to do and making you afraid of what he'll do to you if you don't. Let's stop pretending this is good parenting. The parent is absent. So of course the kids will raise themselves. There's a reason we don't leave young children by themselves for too long. They're not responsible. What parent doesn't understand that? So why should we believe "our Father who art in heaven" in stead of being on earth with us, didn't understand that Genesis 1 was too soon to expect the first humans to be responsible for life and death decisions? What would have been so wrong with sticking around long enough to make sure there was a civil society that benefits from the direct guidance of the Creator? Why do we never consider these alternate histories; different paths that could have been taken?

The bible says "train up a child in the way that he should go and when he gets OLD he will not depart from it". How is a human giving better advice than what God himself actually did in practice? Makes no sense.

unless it was all written by humans who were evolving moral teachings over time and couldn't write what they themselves, in their experience and imagination, didn't know.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 10/3/2019 4:05:20 PM

JAHChild: " The whole story of creation a the bible puts it doesn't make sense, it seems like there was no purpose at all. Make people, set them up to fail, set up a system of payment that will never work, offer your own son/yourself as a payment instead, people who don't accept this will not be saved from the trap you yourself set up.. none of it seems to be congruent with divinity. Why even do it at all?"


And that, ladies and gentlemen, is critical thinking on full display.

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Haile Selassie I