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Yeshua(Jesus) Vs Moshe(Moses)

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Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 9/17/2019 2:49:32 AM
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Greetings IPXninja
It makes sense, to an extent, about the training wheels vs. knowing how to ride the bike on your own. But at the same time I think there are better, more constructive "training wheels" that we could use. And that we could provide for our children. Such as, straightforward explanations about loving others and the unity of spirit, practical up-to-date explanations about nation building, education about plant nutrition. The laws of Moses are, if they ever were anything valuable at all, an outdated set of rules for nomadic desert-dwelling people. If we dont live like that anymore, why study those rules at all? Especially when they deal with such vampiric blood rituals, which is far removed from I&I Livity. Even the Yeshua story in the bible deals with the same blood rituals. So if he was the revolution, then why is his means of atonement the same as the old law, even worse in fact because it is human sacrifice instead of cows, doves, etc. Unless we are talking about an extra-biblical historical figure who is misrepresented in the bible, which we really can't ensure or verify. So to me it seems like the bible is only valuable as a reference as far as those writings have affected society, definitely not valuable to be studied as a manual for living.
Oneness + Love


Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 9/17/2019 7:08:29 AM
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What you said is true and to be clear, we are dealing with lies and superstition. But I also want my children to understand that because they're going to be exposed to the same kind of lies and superstition in present day society. And I want them to know where it comes from and why it exists. I want them to understand why Muslim extremists want to kill them and regular Muslims don't, and why Christianity isn't superior to that because there was a time when they did the same thing. I'm not saying teach them the bible in their early years. I have avoided that for my own children, but I will teach them when I feel they're old enough to handle that level of darkness. Before that point you should fill your children's heart and mind with as much love as you can. But before they go into the world, they need an understanding of it. Not just the good, but also the evil. They need to eat from that tree so because the fruit of that tree are everywhere. But if you teach them to understand that tree then they don't have to reproduce the same fruit themselves. The bible has some good ideas on this too. Again, 1 John 3, because its my favorite chapter.

And... I want my children to be able to take knowledge and wisdom from any source. And I will trust them, if I have taught them well, to judge that source according to the principles I've instilled within them. They should know the 48 laws of power AND NOT use anything that objects to their ethical senses. They should know the Art of War by Sun Tzu and be able to apply it to fighting evil. In other words, I want my children to know themselves and their true enemy. And true enemy isn't people, but something that does live in the minds of people. And that battle is internal and one we're all fighting. And just as other people can influence that battle within them, they can also influence that battle within others; especially their peers.

We live in a time when even a lot of Christians don't really know the bible. Trust, if your kids don't know it and you don't teach them, there is a chance they may be converted later on. And in that conversion will be a heaping measure of ignorance about all the issues I just brought up because that church will never talk about bible with the critical eye of someone who is against it and willing to stand up to its view and interpretation of God. They're too scared to risk their eternal souls by possibly offending Moshe's God because even if they don't study the OT they still believe that their God is the same one who brought them out of Egypt, who killed people during the flood, and who helped the Israelites win wars. And so they are still fearful of that God even though Yeshua didn't teach them that God. So to me its critical that they learn and even understand how corrupt humans can be and how they'll even use your deepest beliefs to control you. BUT... they don't need to learn this before they're ready. The more they start to see darkness in the world the more they need to understand it and that's where the bible can come in and actually be useful. Because you don't need to teach them the bible as thus saith the Lord, but rather as this author said, and this author said, and this author said. You tell it as a set of MYTHS and LEGENDS told by different authors and when something is wrong you point out the wrongs and how they're wrong and what people got from doing the wrong vs what you get from doing right.

But this is just one man's opinion. As parents we all have to do what we think best for our children.


Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 9/17/2019 11:59:01 PM
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Brother,
All of that makes sense. Except how 1 John chapter 3 is any different from the rest of the bible and messages in it. I went and read it again to see what you meant, but I cannot see. It talks about Jesus dying for us. It talks about him taking away our sins. Why is this chapter your favorite, and how does it produce any different fruit from the rest of the tree? It talks about loving each other and doing good. Yes, good. But can't we have that message without the guilt and condemnation of telling us we are sinners and we need someone to shed blood for us, God's special son no less, to shed blood for us to be made clean and unsinful?



Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 9/18/2019 3:01:23 PM
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Again, you ask good questions. The first thing I would say is that some biblical writers were more literal in interpretation and others were more figurative.

1 John 3 really gets to the heart, not of religion, but of spirituality and what the point of it all is supposed to be.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Obviously, seed here is a metaphor for the word of God but the word of God is kind of a metaphor for spirituality. It is by the holy SPIRIT that Yeshua was the "Son of God". It was always a spiritual thing. Just like Haile Selassie I is a spiritual Father and more. Basically an 'avatar' or guru. But what is it that makes you that?

It is enlightenment. It is the product of spirituality. And so 1 John 3 is saying, look... it doesn't matter what people say they are... whether priest or prophet and it doesn't really matter if you keep all these laws of the Pharisees. What matters is if you are righteous. And righteousness is something that transcends any one religion. Righteousness... I would argue... is not religious. It's morality and ethical standards. And the bottom line is that it is love.

11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

His brother's works were called righteous but Abel didn't have an advanced copy of the Mosaic law. He simply did what he thought and knew to be right. And that is the ONE law; that we should love one another. And I don't care what religion everyone is: Rasta, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Mormon, Catholic, w/e. we should all be able to agree on love and should all use that as a single standard.

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

For them, it was the personal sacrifice that showed how much they were loved. In many spiritual systems self sacrifice is close to the destination of the spiritual journey. You start life as well as the spiritual journey as a baby; completely driven by selfish needs and attention. As you grow spiritually you expand your awareness and empathy beyond that one self and understand the connection between you and others. That unity that many see later on is close to the divinity of seeing yourself as a part of, or a form of, or an aspect of... God. This is the "higher self" which is a divine version of one's self that each of us is constantly either growing into or distancing ourselves further from.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Basically, extending the previous saying that you can know the tree by its fruit. Religion isn't a black or white thing. A lot of people stuck in religion are good people; well meaning individuals who have been deceived. The question is, do they live up to the high standards of whatever their belief system is? Because you see this goes into the whole debate between faith and works. And in my mind James won that debate by saying I'll show you my faith by my works.

A spiritual person, someone who is legitimately on a spiritual path, is always growing; always becoming a better version of themselves. It's like the DNA (internal instructions) inside that person is rewriting their character. If you follow H.I.M then the things he said and did should inspire that "new code" inside you that helps to bring you closer to that Higher Self; to divinity.

This chapter is my favorite because it puts aside a lot of the extra BS of religion that empowers middle men like priests and prophets and kings and basically empowers the individual based on their own spiritual journey. And if someone tries to confuse you and act like you must go through them, the answer to that is no, you don't need them. It's all about your spiritual journey and what kind of seed is working inside you.

But like I said... you don't have to teach the bible as a source for truth. It's just a book. It's only as holy as we make it. There are other sources of inspiration and truth. For me personally, my favorite is Star Wars, Tron, Avatar, and the Matrix. But there are parallels that have a bigger cumulative effect when you have knowledge of them all as well as the biblical source material they use to help get their deeper message across.


Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 9/24/2019 2:05:58 AM
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Raspect brother IPXninja..
I thought I remembered the Cain & Abel story, but I rechecked just to be sure... yes, in fact, I was... Cain was giving offerings of plants from the soil, and Abel was giving blood. They both were doing what they thought to be right, but their god loves blood... Far from I.
Thankhs for the reasoning still. Selahsay I Love


Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 9/24/2019 3:34:35 PM
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Yes, but when Cain killed his brother that was also far from righteousness.


Although I disagree with the sacrificial system you still have to understand their intentions. Let me give you an example and I apologize in advance for how ridiculous it is but that's the point.

So you go to the store. You see a 2019 laptop on the shelf.

as a matter of fact, it's this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W4SGSKX/?coliid=I2S64BYMK8TV9X&colid=1N00ZXB2I8UDQ&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

$2500 is the "value" set because that is the estimation of the seller for how much people are willing to "pay".

But you, really love grape juice. So you go in with a single glass of grape juice and offer that in exchange for the $2500 laptop.


Will it be accepted?


the sacrificial system was about paying for your own life. Because (and keep in mind I'm simply going by the theology of the bible, not using it to tell you that you're wrong) since the "wages of sin is death" you were basically forfeiting your life by sinning. This was before the concept of eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, where the penalty of every crime wasn't death.

The fear of sin and crime in general in many societies; is almost always exaggerated. In what world should you go to jail for years for a robbery in which no one was hurt? In what world should I have to pay $100 for going over the speed limit and getting caught NOT damaging or injuring another party? It's because of the fear.

The "Wages of sin is death" because every action has a reaction. This could be thought of similar to the butterfly effect. We don't know how our actions may cause other actions which cause other actions but that has been the result. Think about it. I would say the vast majority of crime is LEARNED behaviors, not invented by the person doing it and often inspired by something they saw or experienced. So most crimes are not just from one person to another. They come from somewhere like a person has parents, grandparents, etc. Ideas... come from somewhere. And we can build on them or fear them, but once they exist its almost impossible to put them back into Pandora's box.

So imagine if there was a person who you could execute that would prevent WWIII, would you do it? What if you could execute a single person and prevent HIV/AIDS? What if you could execute one person and prevent the flu? Is it worth that one person dying?

Is it worth their sacrifice??


Back to the grape juice...


As much as grape juice may mean to you and make you happy, it is certainly not enough to pay for a laptop. Sorry. Plants are also alive. I think the fact that they don't have blood isn't that important. It's still life. We differentiate life because, as we do this, we're assigning "higher value". You value the life of a bird above grass and a goat above flowers. So in your mind, the biblical God should have happily taken the plants as an offering.

But the thing we're seeking in exchange is your life. Because now that we're sinning we need to pay. And the wages of sin was death. And this is before we started paying for the crime as opposed to the whole person, but that idea was still there because Yeshua said, even in the New Testament, in Matthew 5:29...

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

So the sacrificial system was always about saving the whole person who had lost the right to live, rather than appeasing God for a single infraction. A single infraction was more like an infection. This is why some communities basically isolate themselves from the rest of the world. It's the idea that sin spreads much like a virus and how do you save the infected without killing them when they can't seem to stop sinning (or in other words, communicating the disease)? Of course, if you ask me this is where education comes in, as punishment is simply a less effective form of education. But the individual who dies doesn't get to learn anything. The lesson is for the survivors.

So when Abel had to kill a lamb that he loved he felt the weight of his own sin. This was a superior sacrifice because you can breed as many lambs as you like, but you'll never get back that one. This is also expressed in the parables of the lost sheep, coin, and son. If it's just fruits and veggies, well, we eat those. All the time. Like it's nothing. We don't have to hear the plants dying. We don't have to consider their children. We don't have to see the same kind of blood that we ourselves have. The more like us an animal is, the more we tend to value it; especially when animals exhibit intelligence or human like emotions or behaviors.

So it was really about value and the greater the value the greater the sacrifice. And the more loss you felt the more you would be motivated not to sin again. Consider this.

We've gone away from that system. Do people behave in a manner as if they have sacrificed the life of a man, every time they sin? Or do they sin more like they had only sacrificed some flowers? (note: we kill flowers just to give them to people to make them feel special, or for a holiday, or for condolences, etc.) There MIGHT be less sin, less suffering, less crimes against humanity, more love and more peace, if everyone had to pay a greater cost when they sinned; something personal or even something that was simply hard to replace. If everyone had to pay a percentage of their income, for example.

But anyway, that's why Cain's offering wasn't good. And of course he turns around and becomes the first murderer.

selah


Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 9/26/2019 2:44:44 AM
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Give thankhs IPXninja for the reasoning.
All RASpect because the I maintain dignity although our opinions are opposite.
I agree that Cain would have definitely been wrong to kill his brother (if that story was a literal history). But when we get to the system of wages for sin, and what makes an acceptable sacrifice, that is when your logic parts from mine. The way I see it, the creator of the universe, all knowing, would never set up a system in which people were doomed to fail, and set up as a payment for that failure the blood of innocent animals.
Yes plants are alive just as much as animals are, but the difference is that the plant does not die when we eat part of it. I can pluck a mango from the tree, eat it, and plant the seed, and not only does the original tree survive, but a new tree is born also. You can never cut the leg off the lamb, eat it, and let the lamb go on to live long and grow more legs. Yes a plant does die if you take the root (carrots, cassava) but even then the top of the carrot can be replanted and grow a whole new carrot. The cassava stick can be replanted and grow a whole new tree. You can never eat a cow all except one hoof, and then the hoof grows another cow. So plant eating does not require death, animal eating does.
And I can see no reason why the creator of the universe would take it as payment for errors for a human to kill another creature. That should be considered another error, not a repayment. If the creator wanted a blood bath, why not just kill all the humans and animals, and then create more, and then kill more? The logic of all of it just does not make any sense, and I don't think this is how creation and creator function.
I know an energy that is perfect and loving, totally completely compassionate, and this is the energy that I connect with and manifest as the source of all creation. Any bloodlusting entity can stay far from I. I&I deal with Life and Love.
Selahsay I


Messenger: Jahcub Onelove Sent: 9/27/2019 12:04:28 PM
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Greetings,

Blessed love to the I them,

Lots of things in this topic InI could reason on, I'll just try and keep it to the two God idea and on Cain and Abel's sacrificial offering.

Jah is One. Jah is Iternal. No two Gods in the Bible, not one old and one new. Jah is One. Deuterononmy 6:4 & Mark 12:29 old and new testament say Jah is One.

Moses lead the people out of captivity, freeing them from slavery: physical, mental, and spiritual. Iyesus Kristos did the same, he freed the people from slavery; from their spiritual bondage and the perversions of Rome and the Jewish ruling classes at that time. Both Moses and Iyesus Kristos tried to bring the people back to Jah and free them from the corrupted systems they had been in bondage to.

In the story of the offerings made by Cain and Abel; it's not blood that Jah wants, it's not so much what is offered as much as it is how it is offered:

The Bible says, "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof."

Check how Cain offered the fruit from the ground to Jah. He didn't bring his best fruits, no time and love put into his offering. Abel however offered the firstlings of his flock and the fat there of. Abel gave to Jah the best of what he had. "And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

Jah is One and has always been a god of love and of life. We need to check the times when it comes to what is taking place in the Bible. Jah's ways and people have always been separate from the ways and people of the world that surround them. From Babel to Rome. Jahs ways and people stand righteous and blessed above the rest. The people of the world move backwards while Jahs people move forwards. Though some may fall astray, the path is straight and narrow, it's easy to fall off, but Jah is merciful and forgiving and will send those like Moses, Iyesus Kristos, and Haile Selassie I to restore the people and bring them back to the Jahs way and the essence of their relationship with Jah.

As long a we seek Jah, we shall find Jah.

Give Jah the thanks the praise and the glory



Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 9/27/2019 5:18:28 PM
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JAH Child, you're completely correct on your logic about plants and their life. That certainly holds true if one is sacrificing their fruit.

Where I think we differ is in how we view the payment. I believe it was meant as a deterrent. But it was supposed to represent a "substitute" life for your life that (according to the bible) becomes forfeit by your sins. In Genesis God told Adam that he would surely die. Especially, with your logic in play, you cannot represent that life of the human with the fruit of plants. The closest non-human representative would be animals, and again, I believe it was mainly supposed to be a deterrent.

“To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?” Says the LORD. “I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, Or of lambs or goats. - Isaiah 1:11

So basically, the problem here was that people weren't supposed to be sacrificing so many animals because the point wasn't to sacrifice more, but rather to sin less!

It's kind of like the concept behind the swear jar. If you have to put in a dollar every time you cuss then the jar may be useful. However, if you only have to contribute a penny... then not as useful. If you have to put in a dollar but you're a millionaire... also not as useful. So as the people became more wealthy and had more oxen and cattle, it wasn't such a big deal to them anymore. They got used to all the killing.

And they weren't supposed to.

But again, that's why it couldn't be plants. Because if they got used to killing animals to the point that they were sacrificing too many then sacrificing plants would have hardly been felt at all. Plus, I think it was supposed to be felt emotionally; like you have to kill this living creature and you didn't want to. This is how we should approach sin because it has consequences. We live in Hell right now because of the consequences of our collective actions. But there's a disconnect between each action and the worst result. People don't care. They care about what directly affects them, but now what indirectly affects others. We live in an age where we bomb people from thousands of miles away and never see the people, sometimes women and children, that are killed in an effort to take out one person who gets dehumanized into being simply a target. But how many citizens of the attacking nation think about the lives being lost (sacrificed) on a daily basis?

That's the result... sin is like sugar. It's like a drug. It kills you slow and you're fat before you know it. You could control how much sugar you eat... if you really wanted to. And many people do. However, the more you eat it the less you think about the consequences of eating it. You get used to it. And even if it's destroying you, you keep consuming it. Now if you want to interrupt that, then every time you consume sugar force yourself to follow it up with something that tastes disgusting. And see how that works. See we're supposed to have the same aversion to sin that we have to killing animals to be sacrifices. But... at the same time we love eating animals now. So they're getting killed either way. That's probably why it wasn't a good system.


Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 9/28/2019 10:15:34 AM
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Brother ninja, that explanation makes perfect sense. Way more than any other explanations I have thought of before. And especially the final thought "it wasn't a good system." It makes total sense if Moses, as a human, thought up the idea of payment as a deterrent, and used that as a method to try to keep people in line, and it just didnt work out the way he had hoped. But it doesn't make sense if the "God of the Universe" just tried it out and it didnt work... The all-knowing would have definitely foreseen it not being a good system, right?
And about the quote you gave of Isaiah, the exact opposite is stated in Leviticus chapter 1, numerous times, also in chapter 3. So how does "the Lord" both love the smell of burning animals, yet had enough of it and doesnt love the blood of animals? From Leviticus to Isaiah, God got tired of the blood and burning fat? Is this the ever-living one, the source of all creation, making laws and then getting tired of people keeping them? Or is this a demigod speaking, one who changes his mind often? or is it simply humans giving their interpretation of how people should approach the divine, in both cases?


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