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Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 2/4/2015 8:34:34 AM
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Effeminization of the black male (especially) is a terrible thing.
And no coincidence

There's many videos lectures and articles on the topic I don't need to post reference just search for the term if in doubt or interested

1 a way


Messenger: Bobobinghi Jahcub Sent: 2/4/2015 10:52:30 AM
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InI Rastafari have set our standard,InI standard is a natural livity giving praises to His Majesty.InI dont give up we standard to mix with babylon or to fit in with what the world is doing. InI standard is life because one cannot stand without life.Rasta don't mix with no funnyman or funnywoman without apology,mek a guy know them cant pollute di ting,the world hafffi know not to take rasta fi joke. InI are serious people. Every human being come from a father and mother,that is the natural order, simple,anyone can listen to reggae music,grow dreadlocks,eat ital all they want but people must realise that there is more to rastafari than these things. And if you cant respect these things trod along and just respect rasta and dont bring confusion to the movement.Rastafari is not a social club. Just because you live similar to rasta doesnt mean you have to define yourself as rasta,rasta is life, any antilife philospohy couldnt be rastafari,whether it is an African philosophy or not.There are many African philosophy but InI African philosophy is called rastafari and we bun out all slackness and backwardness.Life over death foriver more,Selassie seh man and wombman.


Messenger: ShivaJiva Sent: 2/4/2015 11:23:22 AM
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Provide ANY evidence that homosexuals are mentally ill.

I'm not talking about one or two Africans, I'm talking about several pre-colonial African cultures that accepted same-sex relationships. It's more than one or two tribes, the number of groups which accepted same-sex practices was significant even if it was not the majority. Simply because much of Africa has not accepted homosexuality in the past doesn't mean it is right. The fact of the matter is that there were African societies which did, period; so to say it is unAfrican is just unfounded. It simply isn't. Those cultures, even if they did not represent the majority, are still a part of African culture whether you accept it or not. I've provided further examples of African homosexuality at the end of this post.

Additionally, ancient African cultures did many things which we would not agree with today including the eating of meat, human and child sacrifice, ritualistic murders and mutilations, cannibalism, spirit possession, and the use of so called "impure" hallucinogens. Are you suggesting that because these practices were widely accepted in African culture that we should continue to adopt these practices? Or as rational human beings can we consider that to advance perhaps we need to let go of some of our African traditions? In the case of Rastafari we discarded spirit possession even though it is deeply embedded in African culture, but we saw it as a hindrance to the progress of African peoples in the Caribbean. Likewise, the violence towards homosexuals is a hindrance to the progress of humanity as a whole.

To suggest we fiyah bun homosexuals is a repulsive act of violence which is reminiscent of how the Europeans violently targeted homosexual and transgender Indigenous Americans (a common practice of indigenous peoples of both American continents, that was supported by the communities) during colonization. They were repulsed by "sodomy" and thought homosexuals were "wicked", and as such would literally burn gay people alive, crucify them, publicly humiliate them, etc...The hatred of gay peoples so dominant in Ras culture seems like residual colonial values if you ask I. It is not something to be proud of. The argument against "sodomy" is the same logic they used to brutalize indigenous peoples, and I should hope you aren't suggesting that the Europeans were justified in their savagery.

As a minor point, same-sex relationships are not all that accepted in the West regardless of what some states say on paper or what the media portrays. There is still much violence targeted against gay individuals, and gay people are still fighting for their rights in the West regardless of the fact the media might portray Western sexuality policy as "progressive". It is not.

Though I don't agree, it is one thing to say that "homosexuality is not part of African culture so we just don't identify with it and tend to reject it". But you are saying that all gay people are wicked and mentally ill, which to me shows that you just don't like gay people...you think they're "wicked". It has nothing to do with African culture or anything based on reason, it is a product of bigotry and dogma. I grasp that in the past Africa has been predominately heterosexual, as has every single other continent...but homosexuals are a minority, that should be obvious. Simply because some of the largest African cultures were repressive and targeted homosexuals doesn't mean that everyone should continue to do so now. African cultures targeted other African cultures over ethnic disputes....thats not African Unity so clearly we should not follow this example today.

And lastly, I genuinely would like to know what InI think of a straight couple that doesn't have sex. Or a straight couple that adopts. In what way is this different from a gay couple, who love eachother, and choose to adopt a child in need? Where is the difference in their effect on "life"? How does this concern you? What right do you have to say anything about how they conduct their lives, and what separates their "anti-life" practices from those of a straight couple who also does not procreate?

Here are more examples of homosexuality in African culture...I can provide even more examples if you would like:

Women in Lesotho engaged in socially sanctioned "long term, erotic relationships" called motsoalle.It's also been recorded that male Azande warriors in the northern Congo routinely took on young male lovers between the ages of twelve and twenty, who helped with household tasks and participated in intercrural sex with their older husbands. The practice had died out by the early 20th century, after Europeans had gained control of African countries.

The first recorded homosexual couple in history is commonly regarded as Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, an Egyptian male couple, who lived around the 2400 BCE. The pair are portrayed in a nose-kissing position, the most intimate pose in Egyptian art, surrounded by what appear to be their heirs and wives.


Decolonize your mind
Praise to the Most High


Messenger: Humble one Sent: 2/4/2015 1:43:32 PM
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Dear All,

I have to agree with ShivaJiva here.

"Gays are mentally ill / wicked" -- Garveys Africa.

Garveys Africa, I can overstand the idea of a gay relationship not being a natural one, because one would not be able to naturally reproduce.

---

HOWEVER, I absolutely disagree on every level that all Gays are wicked and mentally ill.

InI seek to HELP people, and not to make them feel worse. For example, if I met a person who was completely disconnected from Jah and lived off processed food, i would not show the level of hatred towards him that you show towards Gay people, I would try and show some mercy for him because I feel sorry for him, and GUIDE him.

I do not see Gay as being synonymous with Babylon. Do you think if babylon were to fall then ALL gay people living on the planet would burn with it? I disagree with babylon in almost every way, but I do not disagree with it treating gays fairly.

------------------------------------------

You mentioned on another post that "before life is life". Well, perhaps you will come back as a gay person, and know someone who, instead of helping you tells you that you are are a wicked person.

I have to say I disagree with hatred; I agree with guidance. Hatred only makes people feel worse, guidance leads people to salvation.
And I have to say, as much as Babylon in all it's vestiges annoys me greatly, if I knew someone who is a sufferer I would show mercy to them and guide them, not outwardly hate them. For it wasn't their choice to be born into that body?

All the best,

Joe


Messenger: Black heart Sent: 2/4/2015 2:42:20 PM
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Shivajiva. which are de African cultures u acuse of canibalism & human sacrifice?


Messenger: ShivaJiva Sent: 2/4/2015 5:48:51 PM
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@Black heart

"Human sacrifice was common in West African states up to and during the 19th century. The Annual customs of Dahomey was the most notorious example, but sacrifices were carried out all along the West African coast and further inland. Sacrifices were particularly common after the death of a King or Queen, and there are many recorded cases of hundreds or even thousands of slaves being sacrificed at such events. Sacrifices were particularly common in Dahomey, in the Benin Empire, in what is now Ghana, and in the small independent states in what is now southern Nigeria.

In the Asante region of modern day Ghana, human sacrifice was often combined with capital punishment.

In the northern parts of West Africa, human sacrifice had become rare early as Islam became more established in these areas such as the Hausa States. Human sacrifice was officially banned in the remainder of West African states only by coercion, or in some cases annexation, by either the British or French. An important step was the British coercing the powerful Egbo secret society to oppose human sacrifice in 1850. This society was powerful in a large number of states in what is now south-eastern Nigeria. Nonetheless, human sacrifice continued, normally in secret, until West Africa came under firm colonial control.

The Leopard men were a West African secret society active into mid-1900s that practised cannibalism. In theory, the ritual cannibalism would strengthen both members of the society as well as their entire tribe. In Tanganyika, the Lion men committed an estimated 200 murders in a single three-month period"

Child sacrifice still occurs in regions of Africa, specifically Uganda, to this day. It is often carried out by so-called "witch-doctors" who make money by murdering children for superstitious wealthy people who believe that child-sacrifice will make them more rich.

Cannibalism is a well known-practice in Africa and I've met refugees from the Congo first hand who were forced to murder their friends/family, drink their blood, and eat their body parts. The horrors of being a child-soldier in modern-day Africa are beyond belief. Modern day cannibalism (the cannibalized are usually murdered, not willing) is justified and often goes uncontested because of its cultural roots in Africa. It's a cultural practice, so it must be ok, right?

"There is evidence, both archeological and genetic, that cannibalism has been practiced for tens of thousands of years. Human bones that have been "de-fleshed" by other humans go back 600 000 years. The oldest Homo sapiens bones (from Ethiopia) show signs of this as well."

As for tribal customs of cannibalism, I have no comment as it's not my place to judge the morality of such practices. But surely for the of vast majority of us we can say that we've evolved past such customs as cannibalism, and I should hope that we've learned over time that this kind of practice is generally undesirable.

--------------------------
@Humble one

I see where you are coming from, but I don't think gay people need guidance or "help" being straight. It's ok to be gay, nobody has to "lead them to the light" or help them with their "problem". Perhaps that wasn't what you were trying to say, but it appears as though you're arguing that being gay is still wrong and it's up to us to help "fix" gay people. I would find that mentality just as downpressive and disempowering. There's nothing wrong with being homosexual and nobody has to help them.

And is a "natural" relationship only one in which sexual reproduction can occur? If this is the case, any relationship between a sterile man and woman is unnatural...any woman who cannot give birth cannot have a "natural" relationship, and any couple which practices celibacy is "unnatural" according to this logic. We do not live in Darwinian world where our lives are dictated by cold, biological facts. LOVE is what makes a relationship and not the ability to procreate. And I stand by that ALL LOVE IS NATURAL. Love is a natural state in-of itself. Love is an extension of life. To go against life is to try to bar an individual from loving someone else. It is unnatural and "against life" to try to define love, to make it binary, to constrict it, box it in, and tell someone who they can or cannot love. Come to think of it, I cannot procreate with most of the things and people that I love...does this mean that all of my relationships, with both people and my environment, are unnatural?
-----------------------

Homosexuality has occurred in every human society since the dawn of time, including (as I've pointed out) the societies of Africa. It has even been documented to occur in certain species of mammals in nature. Many cultures have accepted it and just as many have persecuted it. Regardless, I don't see why we should limit ourselves to the customs of our ancestors especially when we don't do so when said customs are clearly outdated. The cultural argument against homosexuality is a completely moot point when we're discarding aspects of African culture all the time to suit our current needs. You can't just pick and choose like that and then use our culture as a blanket justification for persecution...Africa has many many many cultural practices; some of them are beautiful and still valued today. Others are dark, irrelevant to modern people, and downright wrong. We cannot forget the mistakes of the past. To ignore them is an act of willful ignorance.

If it's all about life, why limit the life of our brothers and sisters? Would the words of Marcus Garvey be any less significant if they had come from a gay man? If Marcus Garvey turned out to be secretly homosexual, would it in any way change the content of his message? His writing would still read the same, and his speeches would sound the same. The only difference that would be made is that which you create in your own mind. When judging others, imagine that they are quite literally your brother or sister. Would you condemn your own kin to the fiyah simply because you find homosexuality distasteful? If you ask I that is comparable to persecuting someone for having a different taste in music or food.


Messenger: VoodooRuutz Sent: 2/4/2015 6:35:41 PM
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How is homosexuality progressive to humanity?????

When Europeans came into Africa in the 1400's that wasnt their first time there.

Greek/Romans had been there long before that in East and North Africa and much is documented on their homosexuality and many of the West African tribes and even southern Africans tribes are said to have migrated from those regions!

But u are still talking about a small minority of a society, and just cuz a few people in a society does something dosent mean its accepted or part of the traditional culture.
Take JA for example now to say there are no gays in JA would b crazy but is it culturally accepted, obivously not.
When I was young gayness wasnt highly unacceptable In but were there gay people of course but it wasnt part of the culture.
People in Africa speak English/French is that an African thing, no, same withbulldagging


Messenger: ShivaJiva Sent: 2/4/2015 7:18:34 PM
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Are you trying to suggest that homosexuality came from Europeans? Evidence (that I've linked to a few times now) clearly shows this isn't the case. Many pre-colonial African societies supported homosexuality...I'm not saying that just because there are gay people in Africa it is part of our culture, I'm saying there were entire societies that supported same-sex relations and wove it into their daily customs.

And again, regardless of whether or not this is the case (which history shows that is it), why should it matter? Our ancestors did brutal, terrible things to one another and we would be crazy to continue with some of those practices. Why the justification for something that is obviously downpressive?


Messenger: RAS NATE Sent: 2/4/2015 7:19:44 PM
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Homosexuality is a hindrance to the progress of I-manity not the condemnation thereof.
Until the year 1973 homosexuality was considered a mental illness.
Of course it's traumatizing and abnormal for any child to have to grow up with two fathers instead of the natural father and mother.It is the increase in spiritual corruption and influence of homos in the world wich caused the tolerance that exists today.People who have a natural reaction of disgust towards this abomination should not be blamed because this reaction is perfectly healthy and normal.
Furthermore,if ones start to remove natural moral standards,and accept homosexuality beacuse there's no proof it's a mental illness or that it's wrong,ones might as well reach the conclusion that pedophilia isn't wrong as well,beacause there may not be proof it's a mental illness or that it's wrong.But this is an issue of basic morality and not proof if it's wrong or not.Being gay is definitly contrary to the natural order of things wich JAH has set up,and it is also a wickedness and deserves fire unapologetically.But the fire RasTaFarI burn is a spiritual fire.

- Man desires many things,but it is the individual's duty and responsibility to desire the proper things.
-Haile I Selassie I -



Hail JAH always
RasTaFarI


Messenger: ShivaJiva Sent: 2/4/2015 7:22:40 PM
Reply

I know many people raised by two fathers and people raised by two mothers and the only trauma they ever experienced was being subjected to all of the anti-homosexual rhetoric of others.

If you are raised by a same-sex couple you won't think twice about it, and you wont find it repulsive or wicked...the only harm that would come to you as a child would be from others making you feel bad because you have gay parents.

And do you know why it is no longer considered a mental illness? Because they had no evidence to support the claim, there were absolutely no scientific grounds to call homosexuality a mental illness. The only reason it was ever listed as such is because the men who wrote the psychiatric literature of the time were homophobic.

Did you know that in the USA black men were only considered 3/5ths of a human being up until shortly after the late 1800's? And smoking cigarettes was considered harmless until the mid to late 60's. And up until just recently, marijuana supposedly made you insane.

Aye, in the words of Dennis Brown: "Love and Hate can never be friends"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKq00C0HvY


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