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Paul

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Messenger: Ras KebreAB

Sent: 8/21/2008 1:28:20 PM

What is Paul really saying in Romans 14 v1,2,3

He starts off saying
"Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations."
which i sight to mean that one should accept those of a weaker faith with love and overstanding instead of disputes and seperation, which is i suppose good and well advice.

But then he says
"For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs."
So,the one who eats herb is of a weak faith ? while the one who eats all things is of strong faith?

And he continues to say
"Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him."

Basically,as i sight it,this passgae is simply saying
Those of strong faith,who eat everything,should not look down on or belittle those of weak faith, and in turn, those of weak faith,who eat herbs,should not judge those of strong faith.

So.....why is eating herb and abstaining from eating "all things" considered a sign of a weak faith?

I suppose it is to do with the concept of "Faith" and "Works", and i suppose Paul was promoting the concept that Jah accepts one by his faith ALONE and not by his works. In this sense, he is saying that if one eats herbs and abstains from eating "all things",he is trying to gain acceptance by Jah through his works and not his faith, so therefore, his faith must be weak. But on the other hand if one eats whatever he wants to,that means he is strong in faith and therefore he is not much concerned with his works

forgive i, i have an interruption, i cant finish i thought right now

Messenger: Ras KebreAB

Sent: 8/21/2008 7:52:07 PM

So, as i was saying

should i burn fyah pon paul for saying such a thing.
Even though i started thinking about this because of food and people´s eating habits,this is not about food but about what paul is promoting,that one is saved by faith alone.

I hold i fyah because in another passage he does admit that
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

so he does sight that one´s works are to be considered also . But then why does he keep stressing "faith alone"?
Ofcourse he says this directly "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I as Rastafari trod by Love Faith and i Works, so fyah

Revelations says "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works"

Matthew even says "I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."
so even what you speak is considered

So what is paul promoting?

Is this what Midnite sing about
"Peter and Paul sell out our Nation
Them play them hand and that the Vatican build upon"

As i said,ini are to trod by Faith and Works,and ofcourse Love....as the Black Christ has taught ini
"it is necessary to have faith in the Almighty, that it is necessary to have love, and that it is necessary to conduct oneself in a manner that we have been taught to do in the Bible. "

Blessed Love
Rastafari

Messenger: Ras KebreAB

Sent: 8/21/2008 8:10:14 PM

Just to say what got i thinking about this is i happened to see what they are serving as fast food at the Beijing Olympics.
If you can open a pdf file you can see the pictures here
http://jeffnolan.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/olympics-food.pdf

otherwise i will give you a sample
Baby sharks,silk worms,grilled snake,dog liver with vegetables,dog brain soup,goat lungs,cow and horse stew,dung beetles,crickets,sea horses

sea horses??

Usually ,i always think like, if a person eats lamb or chicken or cow, then he might as well eat whatever else because he has already crossed over that line, flesh is flesh. I know some people who eat meat,and love eating it,but then they look at people,like in china,who eat dogs and say, oh thats nasty.....but no, flesh is flesh, if you think dog meat is nasty,then what makes cow meat any less nasty? Nothing whatsoever, except how you have been raised to see things.

But i must admit,chinese folk are on another level

Messenger: Ark I

Sent: 8/21/2008 11:48:14 PM

Here is how I interpreted that saying of Paul

"Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations."

I sight that as showing people to receive those that are weaker in Faith, but don't receive them just to judge them about the standards that they aren't reaching for.

"For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs."

Notice that he said the one person "believeth" that he may eat all things. He believes he can but it would be better for him if he didn't. And when he says he who is weak eateth herbs. I sight that as showing that he who sights that human's are weak and that we suffer when eating flesh both physically and spiritually (many flesh eaters don't realize that some of their physical suffering is due to flesh, they don't realize how hard flesh is on people's system). Also, when people stop eating flesh, most eventually get increased sensitivity and do become weaker to flesh, so that the smell has a more serious effect and eating it would be hard on the digestive system, making them feel sick.

"Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him."

Notice which one despises and which one judges. I sight that as showing that some who eat flesh may despise those that don't because of jealosy because it is regarded as being more holy. And about the people who don't eat flesh, they may judge the flesh eater because of the same reason of it being regarded as a more holy way to live.

Here is a reasoning that I made before that the I might remember. It shows Pauls acknowledgement that there is not such thing as faith without works, because if a person has faith in Jah, then they will heed Jah way and Live accordingly, so it must be seen also in works.

-----------------------------------------------------I and I are to be One with Jah and One with Christ, not separate. But people would prefer to listen to the preacherman, or apostles, over the words of Christ. The sacrifice of Christ, was that he taught I and I Jah way, because he knew that he would have to sacrifice his body to teach I and I this, because he knew that babylon would crucify him for teaching the truth to the people. But he still showed I and I, he sacrificed himself for this. So when people forget his words and teachings, it is a disrespect to the sacrifice Christ gave in order to show I and I these words.

Christ said,
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

This is not a request, and Christ didn't say try to be so, but he said Be ye therefore perfect. And for people that think that the perfection is something less than this or that, Christ showed them, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. So this kind of perfection is the highest form of perfection there is.

The apostle Paul in some ways misleads the people by confusing them. Maybe he was trying to hide the truth so that only some will see, or maybe he was trying to mislead the people, and also inserting the truth, so the people could not speak against him. Only Jah knows this for sure, but the truth still can be seen in the words of Paul. The reason I say that his words are misleading is because he spends so much time sounding like he is saying that we are not required to live perfect, but are supposed to just repent and Christ will save us for our sins. And for only a couple of sentences he shows that the grace he is talking about doesn't make void the law (Law of Jah, not law of man), but the law is established.

Romans 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Some don't consider what he said above or the other things that he said to show the reality of righteousness, because they are so few in Paul's words. But some people do remember these words, but still don't require themselves to live in Jah way, they think that it will just happen one day when they die. But if people consider the words of Christ and read these words of Paul with Christ's teachings in mind, they will see the Truth. There is no law against righteousness, and if I and I are guided by Jah, then it is impossible to sin, so the law is of no effect for I and I. So by our choice, and the strength of Jah, I and I ways will be made perfect, because Jah will only guide I and I in perfection.

Galatians 5
13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

I see this as saying when I and I walk in Jah Spirit, we will not sin

17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

So when I and I are led by the Spirit, I and I are not under the law because I and I are only walking in righteousness, because Jah Spirit would never guide I and I towards wickedness

Here are the works that are not of the Spirit. Laws do exist against these works, because they are sin

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The works of the flesh, which is called sin, include those things written above. It is not just the "big" sins like murder and others, but it also includes hatred, wrath, strife, envyings, drunkenness and revellings. So those that claim they are walking in the Spirit are only truly walking in the Spirit if they don't do these things. Otherwise, the most they could be doing is only partially walking in the Spirit.

Here are the fruits of the Spirit, which is called righteousness. No laws exist that are against these actions, so they are not under the law.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

So Christians have crucified the sinful part of theirself, and only walk in righteousness, because that is the only way Jah Spirit guides.

25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Selassie I also knew this, I have posted this before, but I will post it again.

When He sacrificed himself at Golgotha for the atonement of our sin, He prayed with His last breath for the forgiveness of those who had tortured Him saying, 'Father, forgive them for they know not what they do'.

Shame on those of us who are Christians and do not follow the way of the Savior of the World, whose life was filled with kindness, humility, and martyrdom! If we lived by the laws he gave us and were worthy of being called Christian, peace would have reigned on this earth.

Men were supposed to be the equals of the living angels who unceasingly sang praises before the eternal God. Had this been so, peoples of the world would not have been divided along lines of enmity.

Romans 7 and 8

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Here are a couple of other reasonings.

Romans 7

Apostle Paul-Early Baldhead
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Ark I

Itinual Praises unto Jah RasTafarI Haile Selassie I Menen I

Messenger: Ark I

Sent: 8/21/2008 11:48:46 PM

Here is a follow up reasoning I made.

------------------------------------
Yehyah, you said
----------------------
Now you say, well some of Paul's statements are ok (like those RASTAFARI quoted) but others are evil and so on. I hope I have understood that right, and am not misinterpreting that now my Brother. But then you remember that no Bad Tree can bring forth good Fruit, isn't it? And as I said, to me it does not sound as if His Majesty was speaking about a Bad Tree in those quotations, you think?
----------------------

But if you check the scripture,

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Matthew 7
[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
---------------------------

There is more to that scripture than you are reasoning. Because if you consider the first line, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

If an evil person can't say righteous things, then how would it ever be possible for a wolf to come in sheep's clothing. They would always be recognized because anything they say would be evil, because they couldn't say any good. And if I and I just look at people we meet from time to time. There are some people who for the most part good, but deal with some evil things, and others that are for the most part evil, but deal with some good thing. The evil can bring forth an illusion and copy the things that are good and present them as if the good things are from them. And the evil can also do good things for certain people. As Selassie I said in old times:

Matthew 7
[11] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

I don't sight Paul as evil, because a lot of what he says is good. but some things he said were from his own imagination and not from Jah. As I mentioned in I previous reasoning, in the end of all his reasonings, he finally revealed that anybody that sins is not free, but is a slave to sin. And also by other things he finally said, he shows that the acceptable live in righteousness. But by spending most of his time not saying that, he has fooled so many people into thinking that they don't have to worry too much about the things they do, because all they need to do is ask forgiveness and they are saved. So many interpret his words that way, I think their main problem is that they don't hold Christ words as the highest, so instead of considering the teachings of Christ when looking at Paul's words, they look at Paul's words and go back to the old excuses they always had. It is much easier to do this because it is a much wider road.

When Paul was speaking saying that men shouldn't let their hair grow long, he said

1 Corinthians 11
[16] But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

So he was showing that if a man comes to argue with him about that, it is not a custom of the churches of God. So by this I sight that he was saying that, that was his opinion and not a rule or custom of the church. But if you check his words about locks, in a way he is right by saying long hair is a shame. It is not that I and I who grow our locks should be ashamed(although it seems that Paul himself thinks it is a shame), but the people around us will look at it as a shame. I and I who are locks man experience that regularily by the reaction of some people to I and I Hola Consecration.

When you check the scriptures,

John 1
[45] Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
[46] And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

People went so far from the way Mosed taught them that instead of looking at the Nazarites as Hola people, they look at them as a shame and that nothing good can come from them.

In a wicked world, good is a shame and wickedness is praised.
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Ark I

Itinual Praises unto Jah RasTafarI Haile Selassie I Menen I

Messenger: SunofMan

Sent: 8/22/2008 11:21:05 AM

Greetings...

After I read this lecture by Gerald Massey regarding his own studies and conclusions regarding Paul I realized that there is much more to Paul and the positives and negatives that Ones attribute to him. For anyOne truly wanting to overstand where Paul is coming from this lecture is a must read, it is long, but very interesting and reads fast, I think Ones here may find it very insightful. If anyOne actually does read it I'd be very interested the hear their thoughts. Give Thanks...

Paul the Gnostic Opponent of Peter

I hope Ones aren't turned off by the word Gnostic either, there is much to learn before we take a stance on many things.

SELAM

Messenger: Diego B.

Sent: 8/22/2008 2:41:47 PM

Greetings , blessed Senbet!

I would only say i hope this discussion will not lead to another desecrations of Qeddus Pawlos' Message, thru discrediting him as opposer to the Teaching of God, false prophet, arch-enemy of Qeddus Petros, Saint Peter, who he himself encouraged his people to study Paul's Epistles, as he states in 2Pt 3,15.

give thanks

Messenger: Jah Bird

Sent: 8/23/2008 7:05:12 AM

Greetings One and all in the name of the most high Jah RastafarI Haile I Selassie I,
blessed Senbet,
well ini have been meditating on Faith and trust... but what is the the difference Now .. Paul said faith alone ..by the way GIve thanks Ras kebreAB for the word sound.
what is trust and faith I sight is so..
Faith is a conditioning of parents culture, freinds, church etc etc it is a given!!and anything which is given without any personal thougt behind it is not yours : 'fake'.
Faith is given trust is a growth Ini find then the reality and true livity!!
let i explain I self when i say reality and true livity. just sight if total doubt be suicide then total trust is absolute life.
That is what trust is total absolute life. it becomes authentic. Who can really trust? if ini trust ,that doesn't mean that ini will be decived, infact more people will decive ini because then ini is vulnerable.If ini trust more ppl will deceive i, but NOBODY can mek ini miserable!! that is the point to the overstanding. they can do any thing and everything to the I but can not make i miserable.
trust make one absolute victorious, because nobody can defeat ini.They even can kill you but still ini be an emperor.
Trust makes kings out of beggars and doubt makes kings into beggars.
Faith is what is given. Trust is that which is found!! Faith is given by society but trust Ini have to find it ourselfs!
what kind of Christian are you if you are not ONE with Christ??
Trust will make you One with Christ and faith will amke you a Christian!
When people don't sight it they say have faith, just have faith,,, having ONLY faith will kill you INI must trust and be ONE .
This is the dilemma that has happend in the world..because of faith. you have forgotten how to seek trust.because of faith men have become trustless.
In a lecture some economist came to talk. He talk in jargon of economics.The preist of the town was alaso there and did overs nothing of what the man was saying.After the talk he cam to the economist and said "it was very intersting and i even belived evryword you said, but frankly i coudn't onderstand and follow a single word"the economist said "in that case, i will say to you what you say to your listeners: HAVE FAITH!" LOL
so InI can't overs faith without the work it doesn't make sence after the work is done One can move from faith to trust.

Haile I Selassie I Empress Menen I

Messenger: Ras power

Sent: 8/24/2008 12:13:17 AM

i guess he is saying the kingdom of heaven is not meat and drink

even today we see people with locks eating all sorts and we say what we say, even its not good to do, eat meat, but love

at the end we are not judge by what we eat, are we

Messenger: Jah Bird

Sent: 8/24/2008 10:13:22 AM

greetings again,
the post that i ve posted earlier might not be in the right place. maybe if Ark I move it to new post. I would appriciate it!! it moves form the original subject.
Give thanks

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