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Messenger: ciriefader Sent: 11/21/2007 6:04:42 AM
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I am resident in the UK

i got a copy of the bible from the local church

it says about cane and able
that god rewarded 1 of them for his work
and then the other killed him

i do not beleive that god would have favoured one of them but would have helped the underdog more

i cant help but think that it is Babylons story to justify itself and the system it has where clever people earn more money than the not so clever

how much else of the bible is wrong or made-up

what should i read to discover the truth about what really happened??

many thanks
ps this is all i beleive at the moment
http://www.tbsac.freeserve.co.uk/medicinemodelconcept.gif


Messenger: Diego B. Sent: 11/21/2007 7:17:41 AM
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Greetings,

Cane was not good in the Sight of God, maybe because of his previous sins, because of his weckedness the Scriptures do not talk about, but they also let it possible to understand.

That isn't a transcription of the western movement to justify itself; I mean, it can also be that Imperialism would try to justify its action by using the Scriptures, but also Satan was quoting Scriptures from the Bible while temptating Jesus. I hope I have been clear, if not, I'll try to help again.

I can tell you my Brother that the Canonical Law has been set in Ethiopia, and that His Majesty ordered new translations of the Bible in the modern language of Ethiopia: I would have no doubt about the authenticity of that Work, reading It. Ethiopia we have to look to see Orthodoxy, which is the True and Original way of being in Spirit.

Jah bless you, and have mercy upon the world!

Humbly, Give thanks and praises to Jah The Great, Mercy!


Messenger: ciriefader Sent: 11/21/2007 7:29:25 AM
Reply

Thanks Diego

Makes me wish i could read the ethipian version...
but me dont speak Ethiopian..

i guess it must be a biological difference in them as a result of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

I Still find it hard to beleive that god did not help and teach the other also to do good work

The lord must have known what was to follow and i do not understand why the lord did not take appropriate action to keep things equal
inequality is the bugbear of life
could god have prevented this early on?? and why didnt he?


Messenger: Diego B. Sent: 11/21/2007 8:22:08 AM
Reply

Greetings,

Ethiopia is The Holy Land, from ever.

Considering Cane as a sinful man, it is possible to see or suppose, as the Bible teahces us, that He refused to follow God's way; however he did sacrifice to God, as he loved Him. Yet in the New Testament is written that many will fight and kill claiming to fulfill the Will of God... Cane, sacrificing to Him, maybe, while he was sure to be right and pure to God, he was not pure in somewhere else, that the Scripture does not talk about but let us see: before killing his brother, he could have been selfish, or evilous, and so on..
Thus, God didn't like his offerings.
God doesn't desire our distruction or dannation, nor Cane's ones; but Cane as well as us have free will, by wich decide: He is always ready to send us His Rope to save us, but we have to accept It first, with humblness and kindness - The same was to Cane, to whom the Lord could tell what was to do and what wasn't: but He could not force Cane to do His Will. In this case Cane would have no self will and counciousness, and he would have been not human, but a god: that is impossible! (is this clear?)
Cane was appointed with a Sign by God, in order to be killed not by anyone: This is Mercy!(maybe that Mercy or Righteousness you are referring to). And here we can see that God didn't forget Him, as He didn't forget Adam, who fell while being in Eden.
I can give you my skype contact : diego.b.1. (from Italy).

Hope it was enough to answer.


Messenger: ciriefader Sent: 11/21/2007 11:57:49 AM
Reply

thanks diego that sheds a little more light on the subject

sorry i dont have skype
well done for speaking such good english!!

My argument is the way that the bible perceives cane
and in turn has somehow influenced and justified society as we know it to be unequal..
I understand that evil people should not be favoured by god, however
many of those with money/reward in society seem to be the evil one's when you compare them to many of the poorer people..

there seems to be an irony between what the bible 'doesnt say' and the way that society behaves regarding work and reward and inequality.

the purpose of my argument is to edit the bible in such a way that money/reward work and inequality can be shuffled up more equaly in society..

I am sure that the way things have become in society stem from the bibles lack of content regarding this

?
there are 'so many' guidelines missing at the beginning although i do know that Jesus was very good at sorting many things out!


Messenger: Diego B. Sent: 11/21/2007 3:22:20 PM
Reply

Greetings,

I don't think actually that the verses we are discussing about could have influenced a so called "christian society", based on richness against povery. I don't see any economical and social consequence of the inequality between Cane and his brother. Maybe you are saying that as Cane overcame his brother, the rich now want to do the same with the poor, is it? I don't understand how could these verses influence the inequity and unequality between poor and reich.

Of course evils do wrong, and they do it against the needy.

"there seems to be an irony between what the bible 'doesnt say' and the way that society behaves regarding work and reward and inequality". I don't agree, but maybe you should explain a little bit more, I don't know if it is me to misunderstand or not.

The Bible could be misinterpreted, whatever edition one may read, also the best, i think.

The Bible has no lack on this, on the contrary, the Revelation of RasTafari, the Second Coming of Christ, means this (and much more), and surely it is recorded in the Bible of the unequity of the Israelites under the Egyptians, freed by Moses, Colonizations, Cries of the poor unto God to be free from chains, the Description of the Liberation of the Messiah. And more is written about it, as example to the colonialist that soon they will perish , and as Hope to the sufferers.

"there are 'so many' guidelines missing at the beginning although i do know that Jesus was very good at sorting many things out!"
Wich beginning? I am sorry if i don't understand this.

Give thanks


Messenger: Ilee Sent: 11/21/2007 5:01:12 PM
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>>The Bible could be misinterpreted, whatever edition one may read, also the best, i think.

The Bible has no lack on this, on the contrary, the Revelation of RasTafari, the Second Coming of Christ, means this (and much more)<<

Can the I Diego Please Ilaborate on this reasoning?


Messenger: Ark I Sent: 11/22/2007 12:27:10 AM
Reply

ciriefader, In Genesis it says:

Gen.4
[1] And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
[2] And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
[5] But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.



It appears that Diego B's view on this is at least similar if not the same to I view. The purpose of giving sacrifice was as part of repenting, and repenting doesn't just mean to say "forgive me", repent means to turn away from sin. So if you give your sacrifice with the same filth in your mind that was the cause for the sacrifice, then your sacrifice is a disrespect to Jah.

Jah with his mercy told Cain what to do, and warned him of the consequences of his wickedness. Jah showed Cain that if he did good, he would be accepted. And Jah also warned him that if he instead deals with wickedness, then he will fall and be a slave to sin. Jah taught him what he needed for Life, and instead he chose death.

Here is a reasoning I made before that is not exactly about this, but is related:

-----------------------------------------
I think Revelation is the natural destination of a divided society, a society that doesn't see everything as One life.

In the beginning when Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they saw their nakedness and covered theirself with leaves. Jah, after seeing what they have chosen. Gave them their desire and gave them coats of skin to cover themselves.

I interpret this as Adam and Eve, bringing this concept of separation and division into their minds. Before this they only saw One, so they were One flesh, One life.

Genesis 2
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

So I see the placing of the leaves as a representation of them putting up a "wall' between them, because they saw theirself as separate. So when Jah saw that this was what they desired, he granted them their wish and put the full clothing over them, which created a larger "wall", and an even furthur separation.

The reason why Jah told them that they would surely die if they ate of the fruit is because Jah knew that when the generations of Adam and Eve no longer saw eachother as One, they would kill eachother.

This mind concept of separation led to Cain killing Abel:

Genesis 4
8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

The question Cain asked "Am I my brother's keeper?" represents the kind of separation that came into the minds of men. If Cain realized that they were One, he would have known that when he keeps his brother, he is keeping his self. But he didn't see his brother's life as his own, so he killed him.

In a world like this, things must come to an end. Because as time passes, people become more separate from eachother, and care less and less for the people of the world, even their family and friends.

So as we can see in the world, this leads to greed, where people try their hardest to take from others, and exploit others, so that they can gain their selfish desires. And the more time has passed, the worse man and woman has become. And the only way for someone to have more than their share, is to take from others. So the rich can't exist without the poor, because otherwise, who will do the work to make them so rich. They can't do all that work by themselves.

In a world like this, conflict will surely arise, and the power struggle will become more fierce. And it is not only the rich with this wicked mentality, but it is also much of the poor. The only difference is their positions. Many of the poor would do the same as the rich, if they figured out a way to be on top. Many accept that this is the way of the world, and they think that is what we must strive to be.

So if one goes up, another goes down, another goes up, so another goes down. As one learns a more wicked technique to rise, the other learns his technique and then makes it stronger so that he can rise higher. So they become more and more wicked, to out-wicked the other. Look at the armies of the world, and what evil they have created.

So Revelation shows the only destination of this kind of society. A house divided against itself will fall.

Genesis to Revelation
-------------------------------------


Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I






Messenger: Bro.Asher Sent: 11/22/2007 2:46:02 AM
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Conserning the Bible, and What King rasta said about the subject himself, cause if there is anyone i would trust about reading the bible, its Haile I himself:

"We in Ethiopia have one of the oldest versions of the Bible, but however old the version may be, in whatever language it might be written, the Word remains the same, It transcends all boundaries of empires and all conceptions of race. It is eternal."

He also said:

"Today man sees all his hopes and aspirations crumbling before him. He is perplexed and knows not whither he is drifting. But he must realize that the Bible is his refuge and the rallying point for all humanity. In it man will find the solution to his present difficulties and guidance for this future action, and unless he accepts with clear conscience the Bible and its great message, he cannot hope for salvation. For my part I glory in the Bible."

Well, i do bealive that many things in the bible may be corrupted and modifyed by Rome, and there is no reason why one sholdn't read all the lost books like the book of Enok and the testemonys of the tribes of isreal for example, or the (about) 45 evangelics left out of the bible, But the message of God still remains the same, and i bealive that if we have a open mind we cna see what is truth and widom and what is not like the book of Job says:

"Does not the ear test words
And the mouth taste its food?" - Job 12:11

If our hearts are true and our minds are clear we can taste wisdom with our mind as we taste food with out mouth,
And test words in truth and spirit, and in this manner part wisdom from folly.

So do as his majesty and Glory in the Bible!

Christ Love!
RastfarI!


Messenger: Diego B. Sent: 11/22/2007 8:20:07 AM
Reply

To Ilee: Whatever version of the Bible a wicked could read, he remains a wicked, doing wrong, resisting to the Word of the Lord.
With that sentence I mean that the social and political sphere of the world is the meaning (of course, who am I to define and border the Revelation of Jah?) of the Second Coming of Christ, Who is The political Guide and Head of the Ethiopian Nation, adressing the nations of the world, doing reforms on agriculture, , economy, and development: He is a statesMan. He Is The King, more than a political party. He Is The King of the World, God in Flesh, He Whom once Israel rejected to have a man-king, and no more God as his Supreme Guide: Ras Tafari come to estabilish a Kingdom worth of God “Policy”, of Equality and Justice, where it is not a man to be the king, but the Very Son of Man, Almighty God HimSelf.
I hope this is clear, and I give thanks for the wisdom my italian brethren shared with me on this subject.

Ark I has elaborated the reasoning I started, saying not just why God refused Caine sacrifice, but also that that denial was a warning!
Still I have to say that sacrifices in that period were not all as an act of repenting; they were also made as a thanksgiving; another thing: the loosing of life was wouldn't have been to the killing of eachother, but to the very corruption of theyre fleshes, infact, also not being shot , one can die, and Adam wasn't killed.
It is incredible as I was meditatin ot that too, Ark I! I had the same imagine of a wall between them , as they where separated after the eating of the fruit, then they refused no more “One Aim, One Destiny”. I was also meditading upon which was the significance of God’s clothing them with animals skins, after they clothed themselves as a result of sin.
I realized, if I do not fail, that two are the “reparations” to this fall. They are two , yet complementary, as the Two Comings of Christ are: Jesu united man and man, by sendig His Spirit, so that “[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one”, John 17,21-23.
Here Son of God purify the individual aspect of Love, to the fellow man, and make it possible for man to be in One Spirit; Tafari Makonnen come and give us international Armony, give us One Flag, One International Community, one World Citizenship: “Today more than ever before man realizes the bond of unity that exists within the race; he is endeavouring to employ the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of the ages. He is employing modern science and technology; he is reaping the benefits, however limited, of political and economic unity; and to that extent, he is transcending the age-old barriers that have divided the race so long and is endeavouring to reflect on the welfare not only of himself and his immediate neighbour but also on the welfare of all the human race.”
“TODAY MORE THAN EVER” because He didn’t come before, but the times of Revelation are these centuries! This is the time of Revelation, and no one, though inspired by illuminists concepts or by freedom achivment could really set up a government wich offered Unity and Constitutional Models to form the actual Reign of Jah. In this time more than ever because since centuries, we could practice Unity and Love among oruselves, but nation kept on fight against nation, and an international community did not exist. Mercy.
So this is “Political Spirituality” according to the Definition that H.I.M. gives of “Spirituality”.

Bro.Asher did that very good work of quoting His Speechis on the Bible. Also Job is wonderful.

Give thanks.



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