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Discipline

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Messenger: Ten Sent: 10/8/2007 6:25:08 AM

greetings blessed ones alexander what do u define as violence because u seem to have an overly broad use of the word. what is discipline to u? and have u really read some of the first opinions on this topic by those who grew up in homes where beating was discipline? there are so life stories shared here that disprove your view that punishment is violence. as the i them keep telling u speak 2 people who grew up im these situations rather than cling strongly to a flawed perspective. give thanks

Messenger: Alexander Sent: 10/8/2007 8:37:51 AM

Ten, I define violence really as any type of physical force. The human being is a civilized and intelligent being, created in Jah's own likeness, and so I do not think that there is any need for I and I to make use of any physical force. Sister, you speak as if there is no other way of punishing a child than to hit it, which seems like a flawed perspective to me. Punishing can be done by, for instance, taking away something from the child that the child wants. Discipline to me is strict rules that the child overstands why they should be followed. And if the child does not overstand the rules, you should always strive to make the child overstand them.

Messenger: Ras KebreAB Sent: 10/8/2007 9:00:06 AM

I am just glad those who can hear have heard i already

Messenger: Yaa Asantewa Sent: 10/8/2007 10:30:06 AM

I find it interesting that the best way to punish children who do not receive physical punishment is to tamper with their dependent desires. Punishment in removing material items, equally enforces the idea of reward in the material. That has (and is having) more of a detrimental effect on the irits of the youth... and their relationships with, and dependencies on, the material in terms of how they understand the fulfillment of their needs. It is more realistic to smack them, as this is a better example of the notion of consequence and pain as it exists in the real world. An occasional smack to a youth (bearing in mind no-one on this site is endorsing constant smacking, it has to be a consequence for a certain level of bad behaviour) is a loving gesture from a parent, rather than to let your youth grow into an adult having not endowed them with any preparations of the harsh realities of this world. What a wickedness and vanity, just so that your children call you their best friend? Nooo sah... "When the hen steps on the feet of her chicken, she does not mean to kill them" Akan proverb. In my experience, growing up til now, with my own youth... children who don't know about the possibility of them being smacked act wild as hell. I use that word, purposefully. They are wild. Nothing wrong with wilderness, but not for divine human conduct. Humans acting like wild animals is another abomination and it's cos these youths have no upbringing. It is yet another shirking of fundamental principle and rasponsibility. More guidance! I love mi Mother Hen (stingy knuckle taps to the head, an all). Lemme give unuhs joke... I remember once saying to my Mother that I was scared of her. Ye know what she replied... "good". Lol. Even at the time, I knew full well that I had learnt that nonsense from tv and white kids in school. I thought it was a method to make her ease up off me... I wasn't scared at all, but I thought if I told her I was, she might start to let me go roaming on street with people from my neighbourhood... or buy me name brand school bags... er, didn't happen. This notion of the difference between fear and respect only really exists in Babylon culture and mentality... where InI can fear the machinations of the beast, but have no respect for her. I know that in my experience of Africaness, parental respect includes an element of fear, in the same way InI should respect, with fear as well as love, the Most High Selassie I. My priyer is that my children will have a fearsome raspect for their Father, and myself. The trick here in Babylon is that... if your youths do not FEAR you, more than they fear Babylon... Babylon will take them away. Whatever my teachers said didn't quake me like what my Momma had to say... and that shows the levels. I'm not in any confusion as to who it is that GREW me up to rise. And I give thanks for Her... forIver and Iver and Iver. Selassie I know.

Messenger: Yaa Asantewa Sent: 10/8/2007 11:09:11 AM

Oh... and p.s. how did I know, Alexander, that the I was not into an "ends justify the means" type of philosophy...?! :) LOL... and "progressive" is kinda like "fulfilled" isn't it?! Woi...

Messenger: Alexander Sent: 10/8/2007 12:47:11 PM

As I said, Yaa, there is no point in reasoning if not all sides of the discussion are ready to change their view on the matter, so I will not reply to your posts.

Messenger: Ten Sent: 10/8/2007 3:01:16 PM

Blessed Love Alexander you're probably not going to ras-pond to me either but I find your definition lacking. It needs to go a step further and state that violence causes injury and emotional or physical damage. It applies to situations where EXCESSIVE force is used and its unwarranted. I am opposed to that kind of violence and it might also surprise you to know that I am not for physical discpipline. If you recall I did say it was when absolutely neccessary and when this seems the best and only means to discipline a child. It is not something I would ever do and JAH guide I that I don't ever have to hit a child for I think the emotional guilt of such an incident would last for me as long the pain of that child. So please I before you say what you will first get me right, that's why I stressed you go back to the beginning and read what Ites have said on this subject. All I can say is who feels its knows it, you can never know I experience or relate to I story and you can ever know the value of physical discipline until and unless that you are willing to listen. Many have tried to share their views, but still you hold onto to your ways and nah see what the I them say. Maybe the Emperor's words on HIS childhood might reach you, if you put them in the context of this reasoning, but I nah know. One day JAH gon' reveal. Give Thanks

Messenger: Ark I Sent: 10/9/2007 1:06:57 AM

Alexander, you said, ---------------------------------- By saying this, you are in a way saying that the end justifies the means, which I cannot stand for. This is a completely different discussion, I just want to say that I do not think that what you said is a good way to reason. ---------------------------------- Ends justify the means? What I was reasoning had nothing to do with ends justifying the means. It was about action and reaction, cause and effect. In the example of the muscle, it is the only means that will result in the ends. In the example of spanking a child, it is one aspect of the group of means that will result in the ends. People speak so highly about the other means they think are better. But they are just other forms of punishment used to cause negative feelings in the child. And just how I mentioned for people to watch out and use self control when they use spanking, people should also watch out and use self control with their use of these other forms of punishment. When the other forms of punishment are improperly used or overused they have emotional affects on the child that can escalate to something worse. And on another note, just how you suggest that spanking leads to physical violence, what can these other forms of punishment lead to? If you take away something are you teaching your child to take something from another person if that person does something they don't like. If you send them to there room are you teaching your child to lock another person in a room if that person does something they don't like. I don't really think that using those forms of punishment will actually result in the child growing up to do those things. Just as I know from I own experience and the experience of others that getting spanked by my parents never made I quick to violence. And I have seen many children who have not felt the hand of their parents, but they hit and are violent towards other children, and if their parents whacked them on the ass a few times when they tried to do that in the beginning, there is a very good chance that they wouldn't be too quick to do that again. And Yaa Asantewa had a good point about teaching dependance on material things. If you take away something from them, you are associating losing material items with punishment. So if the child material item breaks or goes missing, they will be so upset about losing their material thing. Ark I RasTafarI Haile Selassie I

Messenger: Ras Sistren Khamyl Sent: 10/9/2007 1:30:02 AM

A wise po righteous teacher once said, the best example of discipline can be found in the relationship between Jesus Christ and the 12 disciples. After all, that is where the word comes from. RSK

Messenger: Alexander Sent: 10/9/2007 1:55:54 PM

Wise reasonings, Ark I. That made me better overstand your views. I do not know if I will ever be be able to physically punish a child myself, but I see the point to doing it clearer now. Jah live

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