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Discipline

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Messenger: Yaa Asantewa Sent: 10/4/2007 8:14:04 PM
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LOL LOL LOL... roflmao... yes I. Selassie I.

Soooo funny. 'we've all seen those kids who go into school and shoot everyone in sight'!! Yes, we have all seen those ones for real. Somebody shoulda give them a good reality check long time. Fi real, king. That is so true.

But I give thanks for the whole thread of reasoning. It is a testimony to the Balance.

Yes, mommy can talk and reason and talk about manners and respect and remind you regularly about the core lessons in life and point out principles... as does Daddy... But ye see, daddy spans the perimeter and so when daddy gets involved... you should know what it's about. And find a way to not go there again.

I give thanks for the African family. Though in some seperation, the parts exist to make a whole.

Give thanks for the ights, Ras. I was cracking up. And yeah, it's so true about growing up in Babylon with African parents who whup yo a** anyway, despite the system opposition cos they nah business with DAT! You do walk around prepubescence thinking you (and all the other African children you know) are suffering at the hands of awful abusive parents... til you grow up and graduate, and watch the rest of those cidar guzzling hooligans melt away into pasty backdrop... lmao.

But yeah, Blessed love.


Messenger: Ten Sent: 10/4/2007 8:46:46 PM
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Greetings
Give thanks for the meditations I n I. Ras KebreAB I know what you mean abt growing up in an African family and you knew the consequences of your actions. Some parents did take it far, I admite but still as the I says that physical discpline gives you a respect for your elders and I too am thankful my parents raised I strict even though at the time I hated being hit. But in I family on my father's side the discpline is such that even brothers discipline each other. Not fighting as the man say but if someone steps out of line they beat. Two examples one weekend when I was still a youth once there was a big family gathering in my rural home so everyone went. My aunt who lived in the rural areas at the time had three kids and was probably 36 at the time. Not knowing everyone had already gathered at the communal home, she went out to the bars in the village centre and she came back in courdroy trousers. Her brothers (my father and uncles) saw her and they were mad! They beat her so badly and they called her a prostitute and all sorts of things. Nobody opposed it as its the order of things in our family clan, no one is too old for a beating and only a properly married sister cannot be beaten. Even if you are a mother its of no consequence. When I was growing up my father would tell I brothers to beat me if I messed around with boys because that would show they were being good brothers. JAH guiding I was a bit of a social hermit so never that naughty and no 'brotherly love' was shown. But I second example is my younger brother, I really have a soft spot for him and are very close and he's recently begun drinking again. He has a son and a pregnant wife. Recently instead of buying food for the family, he went out partying all weekend and now he's broke again and there's nothing to eat. One of I elder brothers had had enough of his antics so he went to his house with my other older brother and they beat him. He (Older Bro 1) says he's not going to tolerate such irresponsible behaviour and if he (Younger Bro )does it again he (Older Bro 1) will beat him again and again and again. And its not like he's never beat him before, last time my youngest brother had really maxed out everyone's patience and he was thrashed by my Older Bro (whom I love dearly and is a very good person, he jst believes in discpline) and my cousin. It still didn't stop him from behaving recklessly though, but how many times can y'beat someone before they get the message? And what other forms of discipline are there because even though man is a King and father, he is still a very much child and needs guidance to correct his life.
Anyway these are just I examples of sibling discipline and I suppose I main point is that its important how we raise our children because tomorrow they will use those same methods to correct each other and their children as well.
Blessed Love



Messenger: Ark I Sent: 10/5/2007 12:39:03 AM
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I remember I mother telling I, "go get the prut(proot)" prut means stick. So I would go and grab it and give it to her so she could spank I.

The children today are so out of control. I had such respect for elders when I was growing up. I knew it was unacceptable to be disrespectful to them and I was well behaved, especially when we were out or my Parents had people over.

When I hear children say "fuck off" or other worse things to there parents I think it is strange that people let it get even close to that level. I wouldn't even think to say something like that to my parents. My parents discouraged swearing, but if sometimes we said "shit" if we dropped something or some other swear words, they didn't bother us. But we were in no way allowed to say those words in reference to our parents or to our siblings.

My father told I a story of a man who disciplined his son physically when he got out of hand and one day got in trouble by the police and ordered not to do it. Some time after the police came to his door with his son and said to him "your son did this or that"(I can't remember what the crime was). Then the father said, "that is not my son, when I tried to discipline him you wouldn't let me, so he is your son, so you deal with him yourself"

I feel that parents need to teach their child from the beginning how to behave and keep the order set.

As those Nannies on the TV shows say, there must be consistency, and they are right about that.

So no always means no, and yes always means yes.

There should rarely be a need for spanking, but when it is needed it is needed. People just need to realize how hard they hit and use enough self control so they don't hurt their child. When I say don't hurt I don't mean no pain, a spank should come with a little sting.

If spanking is becoming too frequent, then much more reasoning with the child is needed. As I reasoned about sin before, stopping yourself from doing it is not enough, it must be stopped in your mind so that you don't even think it. As long as you think it, there will always be a chance that it will come out physically, but when it can't even enter your thoughts, then you are completely free and it will never result in the phyical. So I and I need to raise I and I children to trod so.

Here is something from an interview with Selassie I:
------------------------------
Fallaci: Your Majesty, I would like you to tell me something about yourself. Tell me were you ever a disobedient youth? But maybe I ought to ask you first whether you have ever had time to be young, Your Majesty?


Selassie: We don't understand that question. What kind of question is that? It is obvious that We have been young. We weren't born old! We have been a child, a boy, a youth, an adult, and finally an old man. Like everyone else. Our Lord the Creator made us like everyone else. Maybe you wish to know what kind of youth We were. Well We were a very serious, very diligent, very obedient youth. We were sometimes punished, but do you know why? Because what We were made to study did not seem enough and We wished to study further. We wanted to stay on at school after lessons were over. We were loath to amuse ourselves, to go riding, to play. We didn't want to waste time on games.





Blessed Love,

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I


Messenger: Ten Sent: 10/5/2007 5:39:00 AM
Reply

Give Thanks
Yes I, I always liked the way HIS Majesty answers this question. Its as though Fallaci is asking a ridiculous question and HIS Majesty shows that and HIS answer is preciseand on point. Yes I, this utterance is a joy to read, give thanks.
Bless.


Messenger: Ras KebreAB Sent: 10/5/2007 11:44:21 AM
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Well, Sis Ten, give thanks for sharing your experiences. But on reading your post, i cant help but ask, dont you think what you say only underscores what i already said about physical punishment after a certain age doesnt have any thing but a negative effect?
If you notice the bible quotes i put up, they are all about a parent punishing a child, if there is a bible verse that says "spare not the rod on thy brethren", then i havent seen it.
I pray that i am not speaking out of turn by reasoning about what is really your personal space, your family, but i hope you will permit i to comment on the two examples that the i gave.
Concerning the aunt who got beaten for wearing something or going somewhere, i, as a Ras, have to burn fyah on that, and i feel that all should. That is no different than what Christ already taught, and i really really doubt that all those applying the beating didnt have their own sins that they wouldnt want anyone to beat them for.
And this only strengthens the idea that physical punishmeant should only be between a child and a parent or guardian. Because, yes, every parent has his/her own sins too, but a parent has the full right to apply physical correction until a certain age, while a friend or neighbour or even brethren has no right to lay a finger on anyone.

Now, as for the way your father used to apply punishment by the hands of your brothers, i have to strongly disagree with that. I am not trying to say anything about the parenting skills of your parents, but just on this particular point,have to disagree
I dont know how to explain this but, i feel that it is very important that, at least during childhood, brothers and sisters in a house should be able to keep a "us against them" mentality when it comes to recieving punishment from their parents. And i feel that it is wrong of a parent to use tactics such as your fathers, which is really nothing else than a divide and conquer strategy.
Yes i, that goes against everything of how i was raised. A child should never be singled out. A child should never have any fear of his/her own siblings. A child should be able, as i was, to share his/her experiences of punishment with his/her siblings. That is one of the greatest things to bring siblings closer to each other. To this day, i and i brothers and sisters laugh about all the times that we got beaten together, who got the worse beatings, who had the most lenient punishments, the places we used to hide to escape punishment, the lies we used to tell for the sake of protecting a brother or a sister from recieving punishment.

But i have to repeat, i totally disagree with the idea of applying physical correction to a youth after a certain age. I myself had no shortage of beatings as a child, but when i reached about 15 or 16 years old, that completely stopped. After that no one could touch i, not i parents or anyone else. I would say, once the child grows up to the level that he/she knows the direct consequences of his/her actions, then the time of beatings has ended. Every child has his/her time to put aside his/her childish ways, and every parent should be attentive enough of their child to realize when that time comes

Sis Ten, i really feel a way about speaking on your family, i pray the i wont hold it against i.
But the i said "we raise our children because tomorrow they will use those same methods to correct each other and their children as well."
And that is the reason why i am writing this even though i am uncertain if i will offend you in anyway , ini have to reason this things out, nothing more important than the raising of ini children.
Yes the children are the men and women of tomorrow, so ini must be the best parents ini can be today.

Blessed Love
Rastafari is


Messenger: Ras KebreAB Sent: 10/5/2007 11:52:28 AM
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lol, glad the i enjoyed that i Empress Asantewa

Blessed Love sistren
Rastafari


Messenger: Ras KebreAB Sent: 10/5/2007 12:04:15 PM
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Yes I, Lidj Tafari, a mighty youth that. One only has to look at his childhood pictures to see his Kingly Character. Yes iyah, with Full knowlegde of HIMself from birth.
Anyone wonder about how those responsible for the punishment of Lidj Tafari and His childhood companions handled it? To punish the One man on earth whom no man can look straight in the eyes,,,,,lol....i would have liked to talk to them.
I also wonder what exactly HIS Majesty meant when He said "We were sometimes punished", what type of punishment it was.
Interesting though perhaps inconsequential.

Holy I Selassie I JAH RASTAFARI


Messenger: Alexander Sent: 10/5/2007 12:46:13 PM
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I do not think that I and I should make use of or condone any type of physical punishment. Physical punishment is a form of violence, no matter what you call it.

As already mentioned, children are intelligent. We often view them as close to stupid, because of their inexperience, but the fact that they do not know much does not make them unitelligent. They pick up on even the smallest things. This is exactly why I think that physical punishment should not be used as a way of parenting.

First of all, if we have learned anything from Yahshua, is it not that the use of violence is the wrong way to go? No matter how much the Romans abused Yahshua, did he not keep on refusing to reward evil for evil? Some might say that this has nothing to do with the way we parent our children, but I believe it does.

Children are smart, and they pick up on almost everything. So if we use physical violence as a means of parenting, we are making the children think that violence is something acceptable. If we resort to physical punishment, I believe we are in a way imposing the same slavish mentality on our children that we are trying to seperate ourselves from as Rastas.

One must also overstand the fact that fear is not the same thing as respect. Some say that the use of physical punishment gives a child respect for their elders, but I seriously doubt that. I was never hit as a child so I cannot speak from my own experience, but from almost every story I have heard from people that were hit as a child, I believe I can make the assumption that it is nothing but an extremely negative experience for a child. Physical punishment makes children fear their parents, not respect them, and at some point probably turn against them in some way. The child respects the parent when the parent makes the child understand why what they did is wrong.

Ark I said that when he talks about physical punishment, he does not mean that it should hurt the child or cause any pain. I do not think that this makes any difference to the child. One is still hitting the child and the psychological effect on the child from being hit is certainly a lot worse than the physical effect.

I want to make it clear that I am not trying to tell anyone how to raise their children, only Jah may judge our actions. I just want to bring my view to this reasoning, as I strongly believe that physical punishment breaks down children in many ways.


Messenger: Ark I Sent: 10/5/2007 1:54:57 PM
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Alexander, you said,
---------------------------
Ark I said that when he talks about physical punishment, he does not mean that it should hurt the child or cause any pain.
---------------------------

I said that a parent shouldn't hurt the child, but in the same paragraph I also said there should be a little pain with a spanking.

You also said,
--------------------------
One must also overstand the fact that fear is not the same thing as respect. Some say that the use of physical punishment gives a child respect for their elders, but I seriously doubt that. I was never hit as a child so I cannot speak from my own experience, but from almost every story I have heard from people that were hit as a child, I believe I can make the assumption that it is nothing but an extremely negative experience for a child. Physical punishment makes children fear their parents, not respect them, and at some point probably turn against them in some way. The child respects the parent when the parent makes the child understand why what they did is wrong.
--------------------------

Getting spanked occasionally was not an extremely negative experience for I. I respect and respected I parents, them spanking I didn't change that in the slightest, and their spanking never caused I to turn against them.

I truly think that a child can be raised with proper discipline without spanking. But that doesn't mean I think spanking is wrong, and in certain circumstances I can see it as useful.

Alexander, you said you were never spanked. I am curious what kind of child you were. Like I said I feel that a child can be raised without spanking, but at the same time most parents I see who don't spank have a child that is disorderly and disrespectful. So I am wondering in your situation, were you generally an obedient child, or were you somewhat undisiplined and did you cause a fair amount of problems for your parents.

I am not assuming you were disobedient, I am just curious to know the results in your situation.

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I


Messenger: Alexander Sent: 10/5/2007 2:25:00 PM
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As a child, I respected my parents very much. I generally did not cause many problems for them, and whenever I did, I always felt very ashamed. I believe that this shame that I felt is the key to good parenting, because this shame came from the fact that I truly overstood why what I did is wrong. I think that it was because I knew what was wrong whenever I did something against my parents liking, since they always told me why I should stay away from doing certain things, that I rarely caused trouble for them.

So for me the result of having parents that did not use physical punishment was very positive, which strengthens my belief in that a child can be properly raised without spanking or anything like that.

It is interesting to know that spanking was not a problem for you, Ark I. But I would very much like to know if you were ever afraid of your parents in any way, even if you still respected them.


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