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level:honorest modest

1 - 1011 - 16
Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)
Messenger: Olivebranch Sent: 4/23/2022 2:44:52 AM

sistren and the rest

seek Genesis 24:64-65.

Rebecca's covering is to be adored <3 lets keep it going ...

Messenger: Olivebranch Sent: 4/23/2022 2:51:43 AM

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 4/28/2022 8:41:04 AM

I think this is a sticky area. Humans already have a natural head covering. It's called hair.

If a woman is modest and desires to act according to her modesty then she alone should determine how that is done, not by programmed behavior.

If your understanding of modesty comes from the bible then you are simply copying the behavior of an older culture in a different part of the world. In certain African cultures, women's breasts were completely exposed. Is that an expression of them being haughty or a show-off? No. That's simply their culture and their men don't look at the breasts with such sexuality because they are used to seeing them all the time therefore it is not sexually stimulating.

Israelite culture was a patriarchal culture. Men dictated what women did. And in a way, men were blaming their own dysfunctions on women. In certain cultures today, women are covered from head to toe and part of the reasoning is to hide their bodies from men who might sexualize them and have improper thoughts.

The problem is that the thoughts of men are the problems of men, not women. And because they hide their bodies the way their men want them to, it actually makes it easier and more likely that men in that culture will sexualize women and their bodies. It makes it worse, not better. In order to hide this, men used the excuse of "modesty" as if it is the woman's responsibility to reduce her beauty to the eyes of the world. And then what? Only her man can enjoy her beauty?

This is morally problematic. Do we treat men the same way? Let's not forget that women are EQUAL. We should see them as such and not try to determine what they should be doing based upon the opinions and weaknesses of men unless we, as men, are willing to do the same.

And if I'm wrong, let's discuss.

Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 5/1/2022 11:51:57 AM

IPX NINJA Give thankhs
Well said indeed
Coming from a sista who goes about well covered, of her own accord.
Yes Iyah

Messenger: Olivebranch Sent: 5/3/2022 12:31:38 AM

A woman is below her head her father moved to her husband

don't forsake the word the law.I wonder how it become where Rastas forsake the book.A woman cannot should not do what a man is doing they are different and wonderfully made ,each one respect their place.THere are places in the world that still follow this natural order.

these tribal women that you speak of cover up oh yes ,and they wear veils .THose breasts are only for ceremonies .and they are all married , they have permission to go forth so by their husbands. And no it is not sexual but it can be so, but not so much so .Each one has respect for themselves and each other other wise you cannot go . you will not be a part.

in the meantime these women are veiled believe so.

Keep your honor in society its not about hiding I don't think but honouring your husband/your head. Let him have someone that the world doesn't see.Let him hold something that he can say "this is only for me" and feel good about it. continue to be worth more .

For I everything I
wear gets checked and scrutinized , I is under strict strict strict strict and heavy orders.

but its not just for the clothes that you wear , but how you present yourself to the your day to day . How you speak how you walk and WHO you walk with.

what kind of work do you do ?who do you work for ?ARe you giving back , building up your community?

That is Rastafari respecting the natural livity not going off on you own accord .

Messenger: JAH Child Sent: 5/3/2022 10:47:09 AM

Olivebranch we are not going to agree on this issue. JAH give strength to your womban though! I would not be the one to be told I am below anyone.

Thankh JAH my Kingman will never teach our daughter that she is below him or that mama is below him!

More Love
Empress Menen I

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 5/5/2022 4:45:22 PM


This is going to sound very strange to you but I think it is you who have forsaken the law. And I'm not saying this as an attack. Not at all. How much you follow the bible should be your choice, not mine.

So why would I say such an ironic thing?

If you are a student of the law, and understandably most people aren't, then you know that it changed over time. The entire law was not given on 2 tablets of stone. If you believe that stone is worth more than all of history since then you should believe in slavery because slavery was quite legal. The treatment of slaves, over time though, got better. Why? Because the TIMES were changing and so were people's attitudes and what they considered to be right and wrong.

When you capture right and wrong in a moment of time like that... you're capturing the limited perspective of those people you are choosing to copy. But you are ignoring their GROWTH.

That early society was PATRIARCHAL. If you agree with this (sexism) it is perhaps because you feel obligated based on the bible. However, the reason sexism is in the bible is that the people at that time were sexist. That doesn't mean people should always and forever be sexist. If people were racist, that's the same type of energy. Does it mean that people should always and forever be racist? Of course not.

Women had to fight hard just to get the right to vote; just to be seen as equals and they're still not paid the same in many if not most cases.

They are not the ones who need to change. It's us men.

So I ask you, for the sake of your family, PLEASE do not copy cat ancient culture without true understanding. It is not right. Human beings make progress over time. We also make mistakes! We make social progress just like we make scientific progress. You use a computer because you accept and adapt to scientific progress. It is therefore hypocritical not to adapt to social progress as well, especially where you might feel unnaturally superior to other humans that you claim to love.

So don't worship or give such high regard to scrutiny or image. You want to look the part. To be honest with you... no one should care about that. There is no value in worshipping the fashion sense of people who lived 8,000 years ago under different climate conditions. That's not how we should respect our ancestors. We should respect them, not by copying everything they did and didn't do, but by carrying their torch into the future and continuing to make a better world in their name. I would roll in my grave if my children repeated all my mistakes. Because then what would be the point of me making those mistakes? What would be the point of teaching them anything? Do you see?

Now if you want to know more about me, and what I do, I'm not hiding anything from you but I'm also not going to brag or list accomplishments. I don't think that would speak very well of me and discussions should be about ideas, not people. And I don't feel like you're interest is genuine anyway, more so looking for something to criticize. And if that's how you feel, do what you must. But again... it kind of misses the whole point of the law.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 5/5/2022 4:47:46 PM

@Jah Child

Yes, sister. It is your job to choose and to express yourself. It is my job as a man to respect whatever you choose and all that you are.

Messenger: Olivebranch Sent: 5/5/2022 11:25:38 PM

I see, slaves were stripped.Degraded .Demoralized.
Do not put slavery and modesty into the same category.
One dowputs and downtrodden the mercy the other uplifts ,blossoms and flowers. An upgrade.
Anytime you put clothes on you raise.Raise the bar heighten the standards. SO why so critic. There is no force.It would come to you ,it would attract the goodness thereof.

The most beautifull woman is one who is well dressed well kept well sanctioned . She KNOWS the bounds yet is held by NONE but the lord because she is. The livity the fullness is one. Whenever you pick up the word you are whole. Your mind mends your body healed. A good woman knows this. And yes it is not just your apparel, also your attitude. You ever look at somebody and can tell what their about ? Same goes for your standards. How you hold yourself and how you hold others.

still seeking answers.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 5/6/2022 8:41:47 AM

It depends upon the reason for covering. Modesty is like love. How can you tell someone else how to be in love? If you're a man you could have some opinions about how men should be modest based on your own experience. But being modest isn't an external thing you do or wear. It is an internal state of mind. And just like saying "I love you" doesn't make it true, dressing a certain way doesn't mean a person is modest AT ALL. It just means that person knows what someone else thinks modesty is supposed to look like and they're choosing to copy that for their own reason or they are abdicating their own autonomy (to the patriarchy) and doing it because they are expected to. And that is NOT a good reason.

Adding clothes is never an "upgrade". Our natural state is NAKED. Our most natural clothing is our skin. EVERYTHING ELSE is an unnatural covering that we make out of plants and animals. The moment you cover yourself is the moment you embrace the artificial. Some women won't wear wigs because that's not their natural hair. But that shirt isn't their natural skin. It is an illusion. Society normalizes the thing and then that's what we come to consider "natural".

What's much more likely is that we evolved based on our environment and we can add extra layers based on changes in it. There's no need to overcomplicate it by telling people exactly what to wear.

And as the saying goes, you should never judge a book by its cover. Wolves wear sheep's clothing all the time. It's even easier if the wolves know what you think the sheep are supposed to look like.

The reality is that clothes evolved along different lines and for different reasons. Men have the most freedom. But that's because they also hold the most power and influence. Men want to control women. It's a power dynamic. But racism was also a power dynamic. That's why we call it sexism. White men used to call black men "boy" just to 'keep us in our place'... under them. We wore what they wanted us to wear. We spoke the language they wanted us to speak. We prayed to the god they wanted us to pray to. We ate the food they wanted us to eat.

Let women be free.

How hard is that? Why do you have to tell them what's modest? Do you think they're stupid? Do you think they need to be told? Need you to tell them? The real reason that women wear burqas? Is it modesty??

No. They call it "religious tradition". They say it's to "prevent men from thinking about women." The truth is that men can be very selfish and territorial. As a result, women are treated like PROPERTY.

Because the man treats his woman as his property he treats her beauty as something that is for his eyes only. That means she's not beautiful for her own sake, only for his. This is TOXIC. Women should not be forced to dress for the sake of men. If she wants to wear something attractive for her own man because she wants to entice him with her beauty that's perfectly fine as long as it is her choice. And that's the keyword. HER CHOICE.

Brotha, I'm not being critical. I stand for women's rights and freedom instead of being critical OF THEM. That means, at the basic most fundamental level women should be able to dress without men getting involved in the decision.

And plus, I like to challenge how religious people think. If your thinking on this issue is based on logic and reason, not simply tradition, then you should have no problems. But if your idea of modesty is covering beautiful things then you should aspire to a driving the ugliest car, live in the cheapest undecorated house, wear the cheapest clothes, etc. etc.

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Haile Selassie I