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Are Dolphins and Whales Conscious Beings? ---> Animism

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Messenger: Cedric Sent: 4/1/2022 12:03:42 AM

Blessed Love Idren

InI can go here, I man not too fragile for it haha

So originally the reasoning went something like I man was trying to state how I feel that humans have been given a special responsibility by the Most High to create, and apprecilove creation, and express that thru communication to one another. I admit I see it as a hierarchy of sorts with humans at the top. In terms of power and abilities to influence creation, but also the responsibilities that come along with that. I mans argument was something like, if dolphins and whales are conscious beings, its on them to prove it to humans cause we are the ones putting in the effort to even try to communicate with other animals. Eventually the reasoning session devolved to I man stating something like that must mean that dolphins and whales are pretentious meanies because they have the answers of the right way to live but they wont tell us humans haha. I will leave this reasoning session more open ended than that.

As far as animism goes, the main issue I have with it is I feel that it can get too materialistic based. Ultimately I feel the Most High having the ability to influence creation on the scale of miracles, I think it more effective to pray and ask for the Most High’s attention to a specific instance, rather than having the correct physical substance or material for the desired outcome. By this Im talking about the right crystal or herb for this or that protection or desired outcome. Obviously this is a very limited aspect of animism that might not even be what the I is talking about, but that is some of the things I think of when it comes to animism. I would be interested to hear more of what the I wanted to reason about on the subject.

Empress Menen I & HIM Haile Selassie I Love

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 4/1/2022 12:23:44 AM

Is a rock a still, solid state object?
Or it is full of energy, movement and hidden forces?

Please consider on a subatomic level before you answer....

What hidden forces between quarks, neutrinos, protons electrons, atoms, molecules exist? Do they posses any influence over said structures? Is there any connection?

Please consider quantum mechanics before you answer. Particularly quantum entanglement...

This subject is large and very subjective. However I believe with the above approach there can be a scientific objective 'proof' that to call an object inanimate or without 'soul' may be very innaccurate.
Of course it depends on how ones define the soul. The spirit or breathe of life or unseen immortal energy within 'living' things are some common definitions. Do we not agree there are hidden forces and energies within ALL THINGS? This is the way science has suggested for the past century. Even longer for Ancient sciences

If one looks on a macro level at the universe and its array of inorganic matter yet also the MOVEMENT and ENERGY displayed by the likes of quasars, blastars, supernova, etc or the formation of organic from the inorganic then it seems redundant to I to say That Carbon based thing over there is more special or posses something with a higher spiritual value (soul) than the inorganic matter which created it, both being bound by the same physical unseen forces. Is the universe itself not a Living thing? We define living things as that which can grow and reproduce. Science has long shown that the universe is expanding (growing) and depending on what you may know about black holes and multiverse theories the idea of reproduction may not seem so far fetched...

Hidden forces shared within all things is comparable to the early definitions for Soul which is what the above reason is focused on.. whether all these things have sentience or consciousness is another matter....I would again go micro and macro with my response and say the Earth moving around the sun, the galaxy moving around the supermassive black hole at its epicentre shows a level of order or an awareness at least in relation to position and gravitational fields. Is that sentience? Or is that more for every action there is a reaction? Is there a difference between newtons 3rd law and consciousness? We delve deep into the philosophical and the subjective...

The I also mentioned it is up to the animals to try and communicate with humans? The i dont have pets? Dogs? They communicate easily with humans iah. What is communication? My plants can communicate to I that they are stressed or need watering based on their appearance and movement. That line bothered me the most iah mi nah i said we are the only ones putting in the effort to communicate with different (specie) animals? Then what about all the creatures living in a symbiotic relationship with other species? Literally living and communicating with each other in order to sustain further life. What did you mean Rasta?

I like this reasoning .... i will await the thoughts of some others

Give thanks

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 4/1/2022 3:49:09 PM

This thread puts me in a good mood. I like it.

I do believe in Evolution just like I believe consciousness requires a medium.

Computers have memories (memory) and a CPU (central processing unit) to process those memories. But I remember when computers used to look like big washing machines. Computers once stored data on punch cards. I know I'm revealing my age somewhat but I enjoy being part of that history from past to present. I still remember the sound it made when my old computer's modem connected through the phone lines.

This is how I see evolution in nature and I'm happy that we can freely have these kinds of discussions because it shows how mentally and spiritually agile rastas can be.

But just as technology has progressed in the last 30 years from white and black screens to complex photo-realistic graphics with raytracing (which actually calculates individual rays of light), so too do we see a difference from earlier forms of life to more complex organisms forming natural biological machines with minds like supercomputers.

If you had just one neuron you wouldn't and couldn't be intelligent. So when we see animals we see creatures that have brains of different sizes.

Now the size of the brain is one dimension. But I think what is even more important is the density of neurons and the reproductive cycle vs the amount of mental stimuli. In other words... a human who spends all day thinking and experiencing all kinds of things that excite the brain and stimulate thought is not going to be the same as a human who spends all day in bed watching sitcoms.

While the body converts biomass to energy the mind consumes ideas and stores them as memories.

So getting back to animals. Some animals simply lack the number of neurons to think the same way we do. Think about what the internet can do vs one computer. It's a question of scale. I remember when the best computers were simply faster. It used to be about speed. But early 2000s the improvements in clock speed kind of stopped and chips started to duplicate at slower clock speeds.

So instead of making 1 cell faster or smarter... the strategy switched... to combining the collective processing power of multiple cells.

Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 4/1/2022 3:50:23 PM

Even though our brains are relatively big, they're not the biggest. In nature, size isn't everything. It's all about efficiency. A smaller frame, like a smaller car, requires less fuel.

So to me, there are small animals that appear to move as if they are in a different current of time relative to us. They move faster. Like every movement is fast. I never worry about hitting a bird with my car because it seems like however fast my car is the bird is faster. Flies are ridiculously fast. To them, we probably seem like we're moving in slow motion. So the best traps for them are the ones that either sucks them in with faster-moving air or sticky paper that doesn't move at all.

So even though a lot of animals think faster, they don't necessarily have the depth of thought or intelligence to process information deeply.

Another thing. Our brains are efficient. But do we remember everything? No. Our brains prioritize information and memories allow new memories to overwrite old ones we almost never recall. This is due to neurons disconnecting.

Some animals have superpowers in one area or another because their brains align with one of their senses in a way that is willing to sacrifice something. Like maybe that animal has an extremely good smell but can't even see in color.

The difference with humans is that our survival doesn't purely depend on hunting or gathering. The more we force ourselves to think the more we become "civilized". Human beings encounter each other at different stages of "civilization" which basically just means how we connect and interact with each other; how we organize and cooperate. There are schools of fish and they can synchronize how they swim and birds can synchronize how they fly but we have developed extremely complex systems and thought.

But at the same time, dogs can be trained and apes can be trained to speak to us using sign language. So the intelligence is there. But the potential isn't the same because the medium isn't the same. How many fish can you catch with a napkin compared to a net the size of a small boat? But if your net is too big, can you catch anything? The brain is an extremely interesting piece of bioengineering.

I think dolphins are conscious beings but consciousness is relative. There are animals that have complex relationships with each other and those that don't. I think it has a lot to do with food and how much effort it takes to get it. If an ant has to work 10 hours to bring back food how much time does it have to socialize or self-reflect?

The main purpose of every life form is to make energy; convert energy from one form into another because that is the fuel for life. After it accomplishes THAT goal it may have time to do other things. We call it "spare time". So I think how much "spare time" animals have the more they are able to develop other mental abilities, like emotions. But at the same time, they will always be limited by language or lack thereof because the vast majority of our advances are shared between us. It is our ability to connect and share knowledge that allows us to improve at rapid pace; including our morality.

Messenger: Cedric Sent: 4/2/2022 2:52:28 AM

Blessed Love Idren

I hear rumors I Empress will be joining the discussion to add any points I may have failed to address haha

Bless Up GARVEYS AFRICA, Give thanks for the I sight. I man will try to be as articulate as the I is, yes Iah some good words there. I agree to call an object inanimate is scientifically impossible due to the forces at work on the subatomic levels. I man love to learn and Iditate about quantum mechanics. Often it leads to Iditations on how the Most High has influence on the movement of things at all levels. Relating to quantum mechanics, I guess technically when InI see anything: light reflected off a collection of molecules InI call a rock, InI participate in witnessing a spirit (force, energy) in that thing simply by being an observer. So if InI can see, touch, hear, feel something, InI are witnessing an energy in that thing and all things.

I sight it might seem redundant to attribute a form of hierarchy to one carbon based life form’s spiritual value over another. However where I man coming from is that as an observer, with the ability to contemplate creation and witness the energy of the Iniverse, limited as that sight may be, with all the creatures in existence, do you really think there is another being/entity on earth right now that could contemplate such complex concepts and communicate such broad ranging ideas as well as InI did in those combined 8 or so paragraphs?

I feel that InI humans are a way for creation to contemplate about itself. Add in InI ability to express that through art. Add in InI ability to use science to learn ways to harmonize systems of nature (not for industry but for abundance and diversity of life). Add in InI ability to reason about InI viewpoints and ideas. Combine those abilities into one being, and that describes an incredibly powerful entity. Those qualities are some of the things that I feel make humans special. Clearly InI are special and powerful in a lot of ways cause InI literally letting the military industrial complex mess up the entire planet right now. So clearly that power isnt just inherintly good by itself. InI messing up pretty bad as humans right now, but I think InI are capable of doing good on a equally powerful scale.

As far as communication goes, I man not saying communication doesnt happen on a grand scale, or between different species in nature. The Isample of dogs communicating with humans is one I man can relate to, yes Iah I man have had some of the best dogs and they have been good teachers of nonverbal communication to I man.

What I man was relating it to is this level of contemplation of creation I feel that is special to humans. Lets say whales or dolphins or dogs have an increased level of contemplation than humans do. Lets say they are on another level as far as being able to communicate the will of nature. The will of the Most High. Wouldnt it help InI to stop messing up so hard if they could communicate that higher vision to InI somehow? Is it acting entitled to ask for some clearly communicated help on the issue? Cause I feel like even though InI messing up so bad, InI righteous ones are still working pretty hard to try and steer things in the right direction. Not trying to blame animals for not communicating with us, just using that as another example that I think humans have the most power over creation and at the very least InI need to recognize the responsibility InI have.

I really liked what the I said about the solar system and galaxy movements represent an order or awareness. I man agree with that. I also think the fact that humans have been created represent a similar type of order or awareness of the Iniverse moving towards higher consciousness.

Give thanks for the Is questions I man will Iditate on them further and hope more Idren will add their views.

IPXninja, The I sights how fish can be synchronized in their swimming, and birds in their flight, and how humans developed complex thought. I think that complex thought is the evidence of why humans are special. I think that if it was a common trait that was easily developed it would be witnessed in other forms of nature more often. As the I states, we don’t have the largest brains so its not just a matter of matter haha pun intended. Also because dogs and apes can show intelligence, its not just the existence of intelligence that leads to complex thought. Thats where I dont necessarily think it can be boiled down to those animals that have the most spare time are more able to develop their mental abilities. Emotion as a specific example, I have seen science programs that claim Orca whales are far surpassed in their abilities to experience emotion than humans are. I feel like the average human has had way more free time compared to the average Orca whale. Could it be some form of “divine” spark?

I man would be interested to hear the other Is Iditation on GARVEYS AFRICA’s questions

More questions for InI to reason on in addition to the good ones InI have proposed already

Can InI choose how to develop InI mental abilities?

If consciousness is a verifiable process of creation, can creation “endow” a being with a higher level of consciousness?

Empress Menen I & HIM Haile Selassie I Love

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 4/2/2022 3:41:39 AM

Often it leads to Iditations on how the Most High has influence on the movement of things at all levels. Relating to quantum mechanics, I guess technically when InI see anything: light reflected off a collection of molecules InI call a rock, InI participate in witnessing a spirit (force, energy) in that thing simply by being an observer. So if InI can see, touch, hear, feel something, InI are witnessing an energy in that thing and all things.

Yes i brethren worth the repost
Everything move with an inherent frequency. Each individual atom has a specific frequency, some people now say that quantum mechanics is how dogs are enabled to smell so good using the
frequency of individual molecules

Frequency of the Most I frequent-wi

do you really think there is another being/entity on earth right now that could contemplate such complex concepts

On earth? I dont know the Elephant outdoes humans in terms of brain size and neuron power but as IPX mentioned that isn't always everything, especially when your talking in terms of a very human and therefore biased sense of 'contemplation' which we know takes place in a very tiny part of the frontal lobe of our brains. I think the Universe itself may be aware of itself..... But on a grandiose scale of time and space that our 'superior' human minds could never contemplate or imagine. This also leads onto the question of in a universe so big does one believe there are no other creatures with frontal lobe typical human level contemplation and cognition? If we remember each star in our observable sky is another Sun type body with orbiting planets and so on...and they say we can only observe less than 10 percent of the universe using sciences best methods. Idk iah ... We are only a bunch of energized primordial elements, which are shared throughout the universe bound by the same laws. Id put my money on Yes i think the odds favour it.

We get into High Science/Priest talk.
Give thanks
Rastafari Is I King

Messenger: astral empress Sent: 4/2/2022 6:27:18 AM

greetings idren in the name of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I and Her Imperial Majesty Empress Menen Asfaw

give thanks for this space of reasoning

i am empress n wife to Cedric

give thanks to all who speak curiosity wisdom n other righteousness on this forum

for years i have enjoyed the occasional visit here to read

about different topics i have almost posted here several times. now. the dolphins n whales. i woman must speak up hahahaha

i woman have no interest in proving i words to be the only true reasoning on this topic. also. if i did that, it would disprove the reasoning i am about to speak. because i woman is trying to emphasize unity, not hierarchy, with this post

i am not always successful in i attempts at unity haha i will confess that a long time ago i kingman Cedric n i were talking about this topic irl n the reasoning session did devolve into i woman passionately reciting a variety of dolphin n whale facts as responses to more clearly on-topic logic-based n linear reasonings spoken by Cedric

kingman: “if whales are truly conscious, if whales are so advanced, then why don’t they cooperate more meaningfully with human efforts to learn about them?”

empress: ”like humans, certain whale species have spindle neurons!”

kingman: “will you please explain how that answers the question that i asked?”

empress: “this structure of the whale species brain is larger older n more complex than in the human brain, meaning that these whales experience a greater breadth of emotions than humans are physically capable of comprehending!”

kingman: “sooo… same question… if whales are so advanced and emotionally wise, then why aren’t they helping humans out?”

n on n on hahaha i woman never run out of whale facts

truly an example of discordant polarity between equally powerful alpha masculine n omega feminine vibrations hahahahahahaha

these pure energies can harmonize each other though


there is some evidence of consciousness in dolphins n whales although it is unknown (to humans) if these animals are conscious or not

if the i would like more info or evidence, please use i favorite search engine, i prefer not to include links in i posts

another way to say it is that our knowledge of dolphins n whales is limited by the limitations of the human brain

to be concise i will focus on whales, trust i have dolphin facts also hahaha

it has been proven that fin whales, humpback whales, orca whales n sperm whales have the same brain structure that in humans allows us to feel emotions. but the whale species brains are more complex in that area n that complexity has been scientifically proven to indicate that the whale species have intuitive skills that humans do not have

who are humans to say that a hierarchy of species exists or would accomplish anything?

i sight n love Cedric’s reasoning that humankind has unique responsibilities according to JAH gifts to humankind. that is different from hierarchy though n humans many shortcomings are certainly evidence of that

considering the harm that humans do to the world, is whales disinterest in communicating with us not a mark of their intelligence? JAH know i play dumb to survive babylon

Praise Empress Menen Asfaw
Praise Emperor Haile Selassie I
King of Kings

Messenger: Black Christ in Flesh Sent: 4/4/2022 2:57:34 AM

All animals are sentient beings including goats and cows and chicken and pigs. All are capable of making their own decisions regarding anything including diet, friendship or even where to live.

Messenger: Black Christ in Flesh Sent: 4/4/2022 2:57:35 AM

All animals are sentient beings including goats and cows and chicken and pigs. All are capable of making their own decisions regarding anything including diet, friendship or even where to live.

Messenger: Black Christ in Flesh Sent: 4/4/2022 2:57:36 AM

All animals are sentient or conscious beings including goats and cows and horses and chicken and pigs. All are capable of making their own decisions regarding anything including diet, friendship or even where to sleep.

There is no such thing as unconsciousness when it comes to living creatures!

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Haile Selassie I