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Burn JC and Burn bible

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Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 1/16/2019 2:14:30 PM
Reply

Jahcub,

I'm sorry you have misunderstood the spirit of what I've been saying; especially concerning H.I.M

If you google you will find "Raised as a Christian, Tafari was educated by private European tutors."

Now, I was also raised as a Christian. I was also sent for a couple years to a private Christian academy. Am I then insulting my own intelligence? No. Intelligence is about ones ability to integrate information and apply it. Moses couldn't possibly know everything you know about the bible. Jesus couldn't possibly know everything I know about the bible and about religion. Jesus was raised a Jew and he was so different in his thinking that not only did Judaism reject him but his followers thought he was creating a new religion.

Yes, brotha. Christianity owes its existence to Jesus's effort to reform Judaism. Does that mean that RastafarI was insulting Jesus who was raised a Jew?

And we don't know, because Selassie was not a religious figure... (let me repeat that)... Selassie was not a religious figure... we do not know what he questioned about Christianity or the bible. Furthermore, Haile Selassie did not view himself the way Rastafarians view him. Does this then constitute an insult to his intelligence? How could he not see that he was what Rastas would say about him?

We need to get beyond this idea of hero/ancestor worship where we start thinking our predecessors were perfect and infallible. The point of a messiah is not to be that. It's to be an archetype of what you can achieve through the power of the Most High. We take terms like God and Worship and blow them out of proportion because that's how Western society defines these terms. And so even when approach an ancient religion trying to be liberated Africans we still often find ourselves subject to Western theology.

Recall that Jesus said that his followers would do greater things than he did. Was he lying? Was this not his hope? Or would he be insulted by later followers who may be more informed than he was? And if he truly loved his followers and his role as a teacher/rabbi then he would love to have followers who could both agree and disagree on the interpretation of scripture or even its validity. These historical people deserve more credit than to think that they were so arrogant and egotistical that no one could ever see anything they did not.

I'll tell you who Jesus did insult the intelligence of though... the scribes and pharisees who claimed to be the standard bearers of his religion (which again wasn't Christianity). How can one even follow in the footsteps of Jesus without being a radical zealous reformer instead of a carbon copycat? If our idea is to simply emulate the religion of a person without the content of their character, I feel that is the greater insult.

shalom to you


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/16/2019 3:38:47 PM
Reply

This!!!!!!!!!!!!


Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 1/17/2019 2:58:39 AM
Reply

I&i not much of a Bible-thumper. His Majesty placed a greater importance on the content of the Bible than i do. But besides being RastafarI to the core, i am a scientist by education, practice (37 years), and professional registration, so i instinctively focus on a narrative that is complete, or as nearly so as possible (i.e., presenting just half of the story leads to erroneous impulses and conclusions).

i'm reminded of my maternal grandparents - some of the finest folks you'd ever want to know. "Salt of the earth" many would say. They lived their lives modestly, and never deviated from the highest moral principles. Peaceful, accepting of all people, kind and warm-hearted, helpful, generous & charitable, caregivers, honest, courageous in the face of injustice - these are all attributes that come to mind when i remember them. Not a bad bone in either of their bodies. The kind of folks that a lone Blackman with a broken down car in the middle of the night on the side of a rural road in 1950's Alabama would have wanted to have drive by. They'd have picked him up, given him a place to stay and food to eat, and paid for his car to be fixed the next day if he didn't have the money - all, if need be, while being threatened themselves with violence for their actions by the local Klansmen.

Of course, you can probably see where this story is going. What was the underpinning of my grandparents morality and their mandate to treat every other human being with dignity, respect and charity? Their Christian faith. Yep, the Bible and a genuine zeal to bring the Teachings of Jesus Christ to reality through their own lives. Their position on slavery?: "Appalling and disgusting". Their position on deprivation of equal civil rights for all?: "Morally wrong and intolerable; justice must prevail".

Ships and chains were used to rob our ancestors from Africa and bring them to America to be sold into slavery. Ships and chains have also been used to hoist, secure and convey food to the hungry from lands with abundant harvests. Ships and chains are inanimate objects that are not inherently evil - it's what has been done with them that makes the difference.

The genuinely Righteous works, Peace and Love that have been realized in this world by people, like Haile Selassie or my own grandparents, firmly based upon the Teachings of Jesus Christ and what they have garnered from the Bible demonstrate that it is not the Bible or Christianity that are to blame, but the misuse and abuse of them by people with the same kind of mentality who misused ships and chains. We struggle not against books or other inanimate objects but against a universal evil mentality that induces people to immorality and to the commission of crimes against one another. Clearly the Bible is used by some as a tool of evil and by others as a tool for betterment and a struggle against evil. Certainly the "The Art of War" or "Mein Kampf" or even "Crime and Punishment" have been used as tools for evil in the hands of those serving an evil mentality. But do we burn them all? Do we waste our time chasing down each inanimate object that has been used for evil purposes and burn it? We can, but it would clearly be a misguided and futile effort in the struggle against spiritual wickedness. The energy poured into the negativity of finding and destroying tools used to commit evil is wasted in futility as new tools spring up to replace the old ones at the very moment we are wasting our time vilifying the old ones. To the contrary, the energy poured into Love and positive actions, like those routinely pursued by my grandparents throughout their entire lives, is the power which undermines evil mentality in a way that goes far beyond the measure of the individual righteous act.

RASTAMAN VIBRATION POSITIVE


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/17/2019 3:20:07 AM
Reply

I don't believe Haile Selassie needed the teachings of the Bible to know wrong from right. The same with your grandparents. Nobody is born with a Bible yet most children are aware they shouldn't kill and should Honor their parents etc. I find the parts of Christianity which we would regard as righteous..quite obvious in that we wouldn't need the Bible to have told us so...Not anyone with a sense of consciousness anyway. Yet it is in the same 600+ LAWs of the Bible where we find things such as it being right to "beat your slaves as long as you do not beat them to death"

But the bigger conversation isn't with the effects of religion on the individual but systematically.

The systematic role of Christianity on the African race has been devastating. Christianity and Islam has lead to the MAJORITY of I race being at odds with their original practices and for many complete amnesia from their original cultures as a result of forced colonialism warfare and chattel slavery, crusades and missionary movement. Dr Ben Josef Jocannen and Chancellor Williams particularly in his works of the Destruction of the Black Civilisation speak of the 2000 year history of Islamic and Christian lead destruction of African people's and African identity.

And then there is the CONTENT of the Christian teachings. I argue that the idea of pacifism and loving thy enemy and loving thy slavemaster as documented in the Bible being completely inappropriate for an oppressed people. Which is why slavemaster WANTED the slaves to adopt Christianity. It is with this I have a problem and don't seek validation. Then there is the countless examples of Bible God ordained entry occupation and colonisation of lands such as Canaan which many have used to similarly ordain the same behaviour in Africa. There are countless things within the Bible which can be and have been used as excuses for wickedness

I have YET to meet a Rastafari who agrees with the entire content of the Bible. As Ark I put it: I don't want to drink vinegar just because it has a little honey in it.

It's not because of the Bible why Rastafari chant for Love, freedom and justice; why we locks, why we ital etc

In my estimation the Bible and Christianity is not for the African race. Sure we can find individual examples of people who live upright by the Bible but this doesn't sweeten the mix at all for me when looking systematically. I dream of an Africa free from Abrahamic subjugation. Many are afraid to leave the paradigm of Christianity as they argue that they will be left with nothing.... Yet I personally have found many pre-Christian spiritual paradigms which contain all the 'goodness'of the Bible teachings WITHOUT nearly as much of the wickedness within.


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/17/2019 3:27:49 AM
Reply

I share your profession as a qualified scientist. Contemporary Western and traditional African medicine specifically. It's evident that InI both use a scientific approach to reasoning


Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA Sent: 1/17/2019 3:38:28 AM
Reply

I dont care to destroy Christianity and Islam or to eliminate it completely from the Earth.

But only to find more balance

Right now there is disproportion to the amount of black people who practice Abrahamic religions (through cultural rape and inherited FORCE) in relation to the amount of black people who practice other forms of spirituality.

I want I people to be less afraid of venturing into the unknown ... or should I say remembering what is now unknown outside of JudeoChristianIslamism. I people invented religion and spirituality I do not want to see us so narrowminded in this time. Personally I done with God Jahovia and Christ


Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 1/17/2019 6:34:38 AM
Reply

We're cool, brother G.A.

If you'd have talked to me maybe 15 or 20 years ago, you'd have never found a more anti-Bible, anti-Christianity Rasta.

The idiotic Sunday school teachers terrorized me at a young age with stories of hellfire and eternal damnation. They said i had to
"accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior" in order to avoid that eternal damnation fate -- that if i died before i accepted Jesus that i was gonna burn in hell for it. Problem was, i wasn't just some ordinary kid who blows off such nonsense: i actually took them seriously. And since i didn't have the vaguest idea at age 11 or 12 what they meant by "accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior", i couldn't very well comply with the requirement. i had enough intelligence to know that i couldn't very well lie and tell this All-Knowing Almighty God they were teaching me about that i accepted Jesus Christ (when i didn't even understand what that meant). Surely HE'D KNOW that i was lying and might burn me even worse for falsifying my acceptance of Jesus.

So i just suffered along for awhile as a child figuring that i was doomed to eternal damnation (described to me as as torture session that never ends from which there is no reprieve and the pain never diminishes). Pretty rough for a kid. Pretty sick if you think about it. In retrospect i recognized that it was a horrific form of psychological child abuse and i didn't forgive them for it. For the longest time i felt like they should have been locked up for treating a little kid like that -- filling my head with such BS and terrorizing me. To this day i seek to emphatically assure every little kid that hears such BS that it ain't so.

One of my favorite reggae lines has always been the one from "Talkin' Blues":

"Cuz i feel like bombing a church, now that you know that the preacher is lying"

So you see my softening of stance with age on Christianity has come from a recognition that not all Christians are child abusers and jerks. Some, like Haile Selassie and my grandparents, are very cool and righteous.

Just thought i'd share this little personal anecdote with you in case it doesn't seem like i understand or empathize with your position. I get it.

JAH


Messenger: IPXninja Sent: 1/24/2019 3:22:11 PM
Reply

Nesta1: Of course, you can probably see where this story is going. What was the underpinning of my grandparents morality and their mandate to treat every other human being with dignity, respect and charity? Their Christian faith. Yep, the Bible and a genuine zeal to bring the Teachings of Jesus Christ to reality through their own lives.


Although this is deeply personal and sensitive and I recognize that fact I must disagree.

A good person will be attracted to whatever goodness is in their environment just like bees fly to flowers. A bad person will be attracted to badness in their environment like flies to excrement. When you give a good person a bible its not going to change them. They might use it for specific applications of love but love is their bias. If you give them a Koran the result would be the same. If they were Buddhists, Hindu, same. It doesn't matter what book or material you give them. If there positive in it they will bring it out.

If you give a bad person the bible, same ting. They discover how the bible supports mistreating foreigners, women, believe that they should dominate others, be vile and nasty, all while sitting on a religious high horse. Consider the story of the good Samaritan. He wasn't raised with Hebrew Scripture or Judaism. But he couldn't simply pass by. But who could? The priests and rabbis and all the "good" people who defined themselves as good because they followed the bible.

I hope I did not offend you in this post as this was not my intent. But I believe the people you were talking about were genuinely good because that is the energy that radiated from them, not because of a book or set of beliefs. They could have believed in UFOs and Kryptonite and still been the lights that they were.

peace


Messenger: Nesta1 Sent: 1/25/2019 4:18:51 AM
Reply

No IXPninja,
I&i don't find that offensive in the least and would, in fact, find it pleasant to think of my grandparents as intrinsically "good people" if i believed that some people were made intrinsically "good" and others made intrinsically "bad". Fortunately, i do not. But i still appreciate the implied statement of my grandparents' fundamentally benevolent character.


Messenger: RasTafarIWork Sent: 1/25/2019 2:04:20 PM
Reply

"I dream of an Africa free from Abrahamic subjugation"
one thing i know is that the creator of all things, whose existence heaven and earth bear witness, the same is the maker of humankind, and has communicated to them from time to time, in diverse places, and these conversations have been cherished or rejected. The human race has compiled these words in oral and writen literature over time. The vedas, the bible, the quran, african literature etc.
Meantime, bad man has sort to corrupt his will into this literature for his own personal interests.


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101 - 110111 - 120121 - 130131 - 140141 - 150151 - 160161 - 170171 - 180181 - 190191 - 200
201 - 210211 - 220221 - 230231 - 240241 - 250251 - 260261 - 270271 - 280281 - 290291 - 300
301 - 310311 - 320321 - 330331 - 340341 - 350351 - 360361 - 370371 - 380381 - 390391 - 400
401 - 410411 - 420421 - 430431 - 440441 - 450451 - 460461 - 470471 - 480481 - 490491 - 500
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