JAH - Burn JC and Burn bible

The statement �God was created by man� triggered the memory of a thought that I had one day long ago:
If I&i show a person my laptop computer or a robotic arm on an assemble line, and say that it was formed through the spontaneously interactions of free energy and eternally-extant matter, without any design input by a designer nor any fabrication & assembly by a creator, they laugh at me and call me crazy. Yet, if I&i point to the infinitely more complex Creations of a human mind and body (even just a little baby�s tiny finger) and proclaim them to be awesome examples of the Miracle of JAH�s Creation, these same people laugh at me and call me crazy � the human form, they say, simply always existed (although not supported by archeological findings) or was evolved stepwise from eternally-extant matter, via single-celled organisms to more complex organisms, to arrive at its current form. The ostensibly inherently contradictory nature of the two positions is fascinating, and betrays a curious, albeit common, rebelliousness deep within the human psyche.

Without a doubt JAH Divinity exists within every human being whose heart beats and whose lungs breathe air, yet to severe that Divinity from the Omnipresence of JAH (permeating throughout Imanity and the Cosmos) is like considering the particles of an atom in the absence of the forces governing their movements & positions -- or as the Confucian Chinese tradition observes: "the whole is not made of the combination of the parts but of the relations between them".

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA

Sent: 1/14/2019 11:53:57 AM

Your talking to my tune now. I absolutely refute the idea that mankind was always on this earth and mankind was not formed via evolution. Life on this planet started with the chemical reaction of water H20 mixing with the Nitrogen content of the atmosphere forming amino acids and then protein complexes and finally RNA. After which...is history. For some, this idea is scary and cannot be correct as it takes away the idea of a creator.

In a way it does....as a creaTOR (note the suffix) suggests a person or being involved in the creative process. But I ask why does that have to be the case? Why not just an energy or natural mystic or simply creative force. I much prefer that than the word creator. Superstring theory and gravitational wave theory attest to the idea of this creative force being present in all forms of matter and none matter.

It's the BIBLE and Abraham religions why most people today refute evolution and believe in the idea of a creative BEING. Again, something we must purge and purify from the psyche... in other words to Burn out. For me this is another example of where literalism creates the fool. Ancient cultures have always had genesis stories much similar to that of the Bible but it's problematic when ones cant take these as figurative. As Abraham put it, "I am an allegory"

I've listed a number of problems with the Genesis story previously in this thread. Much prefer the idea of primordial waters used for 'Genesis' in early Nile valley cultures

Messenger: Nesta1

Sent: 1/14/2019 1:24:23 PM

Yes, i think we have to take the etiological myths of all mythologies, including the Bible, to be symbolic/metaphorical narratives intended to satisfy the archetypal curiosity of the human mind with respect to man's origin. Imagine the volumes of intricate technical literature, containing descriptions of scientific phenomena and chemical compositions/processes unknown to early humans, that would be required to describe the actual development of the human form (or that of any animated organism for that matter). For example, clearly the detailed descriptions of DNA's composition, structure and functions would have been of little value to the people of the Bronze Age.

i've never found the Creation story of Genesis to be at odds with the theory of evolution, any more than the story of storks bringing babies is at odds with biological conception, pregnancy, and birth. The two narratives are apples and oranges. One is a charmingly simple story invented to provide an answer to a complex biological question for the simple mind of a child who is too young (or has no immediate need) to understand the complex biological processes involved in prenatal development and birth while the other is a technically accurate description of the actual phenomenon intended for a mature person with sufficient educational background to understand and appreciate it.

i cannot see the historic development of the human organism as being solely the result of a random set of probabilistic occurrences, but i also don't visualize a giant hand of God scooping up a hand-full of clay and forming it into the first homo sapiens.

As for mythologies, they serve important functions in societies throughout history (i.e., Joseph Campbell identified four basic functions: the mystical, the cosmological, the sociological, and the pedagogical). The content of a myth can be true and conform to past and/or present reality, it can be fictional, or it can (and very often is) a combination of the two. In today's world, more and more we see man's understanding of science serve the mythological functions. Because of this, ironically, people for whom science serves mythological functions (or as a religion in itself) are sometimes as dogmatic and inflexible about potentially flawed science as the Inquisition was about the literalness of the Biblical story of Creation.

Messenger: GARVEYS AFRICA

Sent: 1/14/2019 5:26:17 PM

And as much as we can now use science as the best available tool of the modern era to verify our overstanding of creation. Just like how SOME brethren used the Bible as the then best (/only) available tool to verify Haile Selassie's divinity.

It was the Rastaman in the BUSH who couldnt read or write without any scientific analysis or BiblicaL reference to hand.... armed only with an African redemptive thought who declared Haile Selassie as the Almighty; and saw the divinity within Man. Saw the benefit of the now trendy Ital lifestyle and holistic healing power.

(Mutabaruka makes reference to this at around 17:00 in the above video)

Rastafari did warn them
Hail Far-I

Messenger: Rasmi

Sent: 1/15/2019 7:40:57 AM

Yes brethrens I agree. I feel like in the beginning Jah gave us first nature to know who God is. Babylon took away that first nature from some ipeople. I remember I was watching and reading about the pygmies tribe in Africa, and they didn't need science or books to know what plants are posion. It came in first nature to them. Just imagine what the I could have been if they didn't start this whole tribulation for the Ipeople. I overstand that the invaders gave the I the bible then took the I land. They robbed the I when the I was closing his eyes praying to the wrong teaching. The wicked will burn, and will not prosper. Honestly I do read the bible and do believe in JC but I and I know in fact, that the real answers are not in the bible. It's in Africa. So, in my journey if the I see that Jesus isn't real, it won't hurt the I, because the I know that Haile Selassie is JAH. My king, my guidance, my heart, my God.

Jah Rastafari

Messenger: Nesta1

Sent: 1/15/2019 7:56:27 AM

[Reproduced from an earlier post:]
The Bible is a very old and confusing Book. It contains incredible and beautiful Truth, [e.g., The Sermon of the Mount] and also contains a lot of superfluous material that is confusing and largely irrelevant (and often unintelligible) to the modern reader. Non-essential. One need not know the Bible cover to cover [or at all] to know JAH or to know Truth. See, JAH is inside everyone and speaks to you directly. You need to listen. JAH also sent to us song prophets who distilled the Truth and give it to us with His New Song, new music (reggae). So see, JAH has many way to communicate the Truth to His Idren.
I have a favorite passage from an interview with Bob Marley. Bob said: �Well, I've been a Rasta from ever since. You know. But, is not how long I've been a Rasta, is how long it takes you to grow up. Cause, what you is what you is, from beginning to the end, you can never change 'cause even if you adopt things, later on they filter right out. So I was Rasta from creation, you know�� Me is a common sense man, that mean when me explain things me explain it in a very simple way that mean even when me explain it to a baby the baby will understand too, you know.�
The baby will understand too. Well, of course. Because if the baby can't get it, how can it be JAH LOVE? Beware of men in robes and on video tapes who offer to "interpret" the Bible for you because "it's very complex". "Complex" is how the devil deceives people. The Truth is simple and fresh like a baby's breath or the scent of a flower blossom.
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JAH Truth and Wisdom are archetypal, and recur over the history of mankind throughout many mythologies which have served to preserve & convey them. This is why we cannot simply exclude anther man's perceptions as irrelevant or untrue simply because he does not share our particular faith.

Messenger: IPXninja

Sent: 1/15/2019 10:57:32 AM

As someone who used learned how to program computers from the 4th grade I absolutely thought that there was no way that everything we see could be the result of some random process; that it had to be designed and therefore had to have a designer.

What I'm going to say now is not going to be well received.

It is possible. It's possible that a computer can come about from what appears to be "random processes". When I was a Christian I used to use the example of a watch. How could something evolve into a watch? I don't care how many millions of years pass the pieces of a watch will never come together on their own to create that watch. Of course this argument is completely logical.

As a programmer I also thought true Artificial Intelligence was impossible. In my mind there was no way to program all the things that it needed to be "sentient". Making clever fakes is a lot easier than creating the real thing.

So what's changed?

My problem in the past was that I really didn't understand evolution as a complex model of development. I was skipping stages based on the definitions we have today. If I ask you today what does it mean that something is alive or intelligent, the most probable answer will be based on the most current information. Your answer will be correct.

If The sun hits a tree and it casts a shadow. The shadow cast by the sun can be used to tell time. In fact you can imagine that the sun dial was really an artificial version of the sunlight casting a shadow from a tree. So the sun dial is an early version of a watch that was created by humans that were intelligent but not on the same level of scientific discovery, innovation, technology.

So when I think of life evolving I no longer impose my strict modern definition of what life is because even the concept of life is something that evolved too. Chemical reactions are "animated" in a much less sophisticated way. The sun is probably the most animated thing in our solar system because the nuclear fusion and fission constantly going on supplies energy (life essence) that is consumed by plants which is then consumed by animals. These systems are so interlocked with each other that when you search deeper and don't dismiss the idea simply because it disagrees with what you mind already believes... it starts to make much more sense.

Research the periodic table. Why do we have these elements? Where did the very building blocks of all this come from? It came from natural processes of physics. All of these elements are made from the same basic stuff. Physics then explains why this basic stuff (protons, neutrons, and electrons) arrange themselves into different patterns. A designer doesn't make the patterns. They are algorithmic.

If you had no chemical reactions in your brain you would feel love or physical attraction. Therefore it is unlikely you would procreate. Natural processes in your body drive you to recreate yourself and carry on your species. That natural process can be thought of as an algorithm. If you don't recognize the algorithms at work then everything we see looks like magic.

We see the end result and its hard to see every step it took to get there. We see huge skyscrapers still made of the same basic stuff (protons, neutrons, and electrons). No, these structures didn't make themselves. But they weren't created before we came along either. Any Creation myth doesn't include man made structures because there was no deity that made them. But why not, if that's what we needed? Adam could have had a sweet condo created for him, with electricity, toaster, refrigerator, A/C, etc. Why not? Why did he have to invent all these things?

Necessity is the mother of invention. Necessity creates the algorithms that we use to extend creation week. All of the algorithms of purely natural origin. Those we ascribe to God because we don't understand them. But we know how the building blocks came to exist. We know why we have air and water and heavier metals and why other planets don't. And if you look at those other planets and their distance to the sun it makes more sense when you consider what these processes of physics need to work. And that's because its not magic at all. It seems like magic. And so it seems like a universal programmer stood in the center of our solar system and created all these systems from scratch. But its more like a domino effect created by certain conditions.

Did a bug simply appear one day? No. One day the same kind of energy that later took the form of a plant, took the form of a single cell organism. These became more complex until they were no longer single cell organisms. These became more complex until we had to start calling them by new and different names. Eventually one form of that energy became humans.

If you think this is impossible look at how a sperm and egg eventually form a zygote and all the stages before you get to a baby. And because sperm live in a liquid environment they're basically just like tad poles. We go from breathing liquid to breathing air just like the old pics of the fish that sprouts legs and starts walking on land. There are enough things about us (including just how many microorganisms are in all of our bodies) that tell the story of Evolution much more so than Creation. But it takes an open mind to really see the depth of what evolution is all about.

Messenger: IPXninja

Sent: 1/15/2019 11:12:30 AM

If the last post really didn't do anything for you let me ask you a logical question. It's actually easier for me to disprove the creator than it is to prove evolution.

And there is a kind of mathematical symmetry to me going online and trying to disprove something I used to go online to prove but we wont get into that.

Here is the logical question:

If your argument is that you need a designer to create the computer because the computer is too complex, let's simply apply that same logic to EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. If it's not consistent then it really isn't as logical as it appears.

The human body is very complex. So the logic is that it needs a designer just like a jet airplane. A jet airplane uses science to fly but ancient humans would have thought the same craft was a chariot of the gods. Because they didn't understand the science. We still don't understand ALL things. We're still trying to crack the code on quantum mechanics.

But back to the question. Did you figure out where it was going yet?

If complex things require a designer and are so complex that they appear to be magical to those who don't understand the science... please explain how God... the Creator... seems to be a magical being who can perform miracles (one being the miracle of creation) by simple voice command... how is this God not even more complex than we are? Why does he not need a designer? Doesn't he have eyes, ears, etc. because we were created in his image? All of these parts are "systems"; complex systems that perform a function. If he has a version of these same systems how could that be if no one designed him?

Someone had to create God in order to fulfill the same logic that God must have created us.

Now if God started out as something less than God, less complex, and evolved over time then this could fix this problem which otherwise is 'circular logic'. Because then at least you're not creating an infinite origin story where one God creates another that creates another to infinity. But if things started from less complex forms then they don't need a designer, only the ability to reproduce and learn. Currently we have AI that learns. How does it work? Algorithms.