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Speak the truth.........

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Messenger: gideon Sent: 11/5/2004 5:19:49 PM

First you say that Jah do not allow one's to take things from others without their consent. Then you say that it is wrong when one's take things from others without their consent. Is it possible or not?
Let your thinking be founded in faith in Jah as the only creator, who is pure and just and then you will not be confounded. Try to deny this fact and you will always be confounded, because you are building on sand and not the true foundation.

Messenger: Dreadnut Sent: 11/5/2004 7:24:32 PM

My lord,

Stealing is stealing and there is nothing more to that. Mussolini came to steal Ethiopia, Africa my lord, The slavedrivers came to Africa to steal Black people, Babylon has stolen history and culture from those whom it belongs. So yes my lord stealing is a real issue. And I think that you need to think through this reasoning before going any further with it.

Ras Zion I

Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 11/5/2004 9:20:27 PM

JAH doesnt want us to steal therefore the i should say instead of jah doesnt allow it ....I should say JAH doesnt want us to steal.......Seen??.........yes stealin is something that comes from people's creation ....not JAH......but JAH gives the I a free the I must find the path of truth and this path has no stealin on it........only love respect and harmony.....this is things the I belives is tuff cuz babylon tries to show u and lead u on the other pass .......but we must not choose that path

we have free will so we can go against JAH teachings and JAH law........but we must not do that.......

Respect all people is is love all people.

Jah Rastafari king of kings, lord of lords , conquering lion of the tribe of judah....

forgive me Gideon for not using words that are clear......hope the I was more clear of what the I means now......seen?

Messenger: Ark I Sent: 11/6/2004 1:36:24 AM

Gideon, you said,
How can I do wrong, when Jah is my creator? It makes no sense. All I can do wrong is see wrong. And that is a mistake that we need to clear up. That is the babylon that we need to burn out. And we do it by speaking true words.

So if a person causes harm to another, do they see wrong or do wrong? You seem to be playing with words to try to redefine them. When a wicked person kills a child, for entertainment for themself, people say that he did something wrong and wicked. So did he not do wrong, but just saw wrong? If he didn't do wrong, did he do right? Just because people Iverstand the meaning of a word differently then you see it, doesn't mean they are wrong. People use words to describe things inside and outside of them. And when a person does wickedness, people say that he did wickedness, or did wrong, or did evil.

Gideon, you mentioned that it is not stealing when a person takes from another. If a person labours to produce something that serves a beneficial purpose for themself, and somebody else comes along and takes it, then I and I call that stealing, and I and I call it wickedness. The first person put out their energy and laboured to make something for their survival. The next person only walks past and steals if from the first. He hardly put any energy into it, he only sucked off the energy of the first. I and I call those people vampires, sucking the blood of the People.

If you consider that taking things that others labour for is right, then that is your choice. But I will never see it that way, and it is you that teaches this, not Jah or Haile Selassie I.

You also said,

Do not commit adultery - This makes no sense. Marriage is an agreement between two people to be together. When people agree to be together then they are together, that is what is meant by agreement. If they are not together then obviously they do not agree to be together and they are not married.

What adultery means is that when two people make a choice to be together for Life, and one person changes their mind and decides to get together with other people, but doesn't tell their spouse that this is what they desire and doesn't break off the marriage, then they are committing adultery. If it was agreed between them that they should part and deal with other people, then by the law of the Jews, they were divorced, and were not committing adultery. But Christ said that this was not so, there was no divorce and if the man and woman agree to come together as One, then they will always be One, and they are committing adultery if they deal with anybody else, divorce or not.

I can see what you are saying about false words, that the two people never truly made an agreement, because if they truly agreed to come together as One, they would never deal with anybody else. But you are just confusing the matter when you are playing with the words.

In a world where we react with different people, we have the things we do and the thing we intend to do and have agreed to do. Whether the agreement is true or false, it is presented as if it was true, and this is how an agreement is defined, because unless we know the true intention of others, we can only agree with the assumption that the others agreement is true, and know that our agreement is true. So when two people get married, they are stating that they have the intention to be with the other for Life. And by the nature of this Union, both have true intentions. So if One person truly had the intention to only be with the other, and would never cheat, then they have agreed and have true intentions, there word is true. But if a person doesn't truly have this intention, or if they think that they had this intention but changed their mind later, then they are committing adultery and their word is false.

The falseness of their word and their wicked thought is the sin. But their actions is the result, and their actions show others of the truth behind their lies. So we recognize the action and have words for the action.

It is fruitless to play with the words like you are doing. All this does is bring confusion. Because whether it is said that a person committed adultery, or that they never truly agreed, the same action and the same thought is described, just described with different words.

If you are not playing with words and think that it is not a wicked thing for a person to hurt, kill, or starve another, but think it is just natural and right thing for the people that do it. If you think that, then I don't agree in the slightest. So to clear up the question of whether you think one way or the other, can you explain what you think in a way that we will Iverstand. Try to use language that we are familiar with communicating in so that there is not ambiguity to your words. Clearing up what exactly you are saying in reference to what I said in the first sentence of this last paragraph would be a good start.

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: gideon Sent: 11/6/2004 2:54:32 PM

I think that Ark is basically getting to the basic point that dreadnut and ninemile are making too, so I will answer his question that he said I should answer. Ark asked:
If you are not playing with words and think that it is not a wicked thing for a person to hurt, kill, or starve another, but think it is just natural and right thing for the people that do it.

What is natural?
A man has food and says it is his own, and I come and take it away so that he starves. Suppose he dies. My actions are part of a cause and effect chain that brought about that person suffering and death. This has happened before, and in fact it happens every day..... Let me analyse the situation accooding to what I am saying.
I know for a fact that suffering is not necessary in the sense that if a man follows Jah guidance fully he will never suffer. However the reality is that men fail to follow Jah guidance fully and that causes them to suffer.
So first of all, my taking away the person food did not cause their suffering or death. Moses went for eighty days without eating and Jesus for forty days, we know that food is not necessary for life, but all that is necessary is Jah will that the person live. And a person does not have to suffer if Jah doesn't want them to. So when the person suffers and dies, don't say it is the lack of food that caused it. It so happened that Jah will for the person to suffer and die was manifest by that person losing the food they thought was theirs. Some people have food and still suffer and die. And don't blame me because I took part in the cause and effect chain.
The only way I could take that person's food is when Jah show me that it is good to take it. Maybe I was missing out on a higher guidance but according to the guidance that I did receive and acknowledge this is what Jah wanted me to do. So I did Jah will.
So I have explained clearly. Now let me add that it was never the person's food in the first place. They were just keeping it for me. They thought it was theirs but that was babylon illusion.

Don't get me wrong, I am not for taking what you want when you want it at all times. Do good, but don't let someone tell you that something belongs to anyone. If you need something to do good and you feel that Jah is guiding you to take it then do so.
Look at it realistically. Just because one person comes to a place first and picks a fruit, and then I get their five minutes later, is that any reason for me to respect their claim that they own the fruit? For me I don't care who got there first. I will decide what is the best line of action and if I feel it is best for him to keep it then I will support his ownership of it, but if I feel it is best for me to keep it then I will support my ownership. I will take it away. Who is anyone to say that it is stealing?
I am saying Do Good. But don't let people tell you they own something. Jah is the rightful owner of creation. And man have dominion over everything. Jah guidance is to do good. So once you are doing good whatever you take is yours by right, because you are following Jah guidance and these things belong to him. Don't let a man say it is his and bluff you out of your inheritance. This world is run on bluff. If you let a man bluff you he will have his way with you. Do you really intend that we will take back this earth by following the rules set by the ones who run it now? Well you are free to do so, but most of you will end up working for people like me, who are not confined by so-called "social norms". Whatever you can claim and hold is yours by right, by Jah will. Calling something yours doesn't make it yours. Taking it and using it makes it yours. So we need to TAKE what is ours. And that is what I am going to do, in fact that is what I am doing.

Messenger: NineMile2004 Sent: 11/6/2004 6:14:41 PM



Messenger: Ark I Sent: 11/8/2004 1:07:51 AM

Many people say their actions are of God, but their actions are their own, concieved by their own mind. And they try to say it is of God to free their conscience, but it does not free, it only brings judgement to themself.

Psalm 50
16 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and casteth my words behind thee.
18 When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers.
19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit.
20 Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.
21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.
23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

Proverbs 3
1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:
10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.
11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.
20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.
21 My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion:
22 So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck.
23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.
24 When thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid: yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet.
25 Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh.
26 For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.
27 Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it.
28 Say not unto thy neighbour, Go, and come again, and to morrow I will give; when thou hast it by thee.
29 Devise not evil against thy neighbour, seeing he dwelleth securely by thee.
30 Strive not with a man without cause, if he have done thee no harm.
31 Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.
32 For the froward is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous.
33 The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.
34 Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.
35 The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools.

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: gideon Sent: 11/8/2004 9:54:21 AM

Ark, Ninemile and Dreadnut are following one reaoning that make them cannot see what I am getting at. You are saying that people do things that are not Jah will. I am saying simply that Jah is the creator, so whatever is created, or whatever happens, is his will, by definition. Before making any other comments please say if you accept that statement or not. Or do you think that things happen (i.e. are created) that are not Jah will?

When you consider this question sincerely and with humility you will see that everything that happens is Jah will. When you accept this as a fact we can go on to the rest of the reasoning.

About the wrong things that are happening today in the world, you will wonder how can Jah create wrong things. Well, these wrong things that are happening are only wrong in the sense that it could be better. It is not wrong in the sense of against Jah will or law.
Those who are waiting for the armageddon and some change to come in the world will keep on waiting. The change to enter the new millenium comes in you mind when you stop puting faith in what your eyes see and start building upon the faith that Jah is good and his creation just and pure. Once you follow your mind you will never see this revelation I am talking about (note that they word armegeddon means revelation).
And as for Ark telling me that I should not follow my own understanding but Jah guidance. Exactly my point that I am making to you all in this forum. Your mind tells you that things are wrong in creation but let Jah guidance (faith) assure you that your mind is not seeing too right and that nothing can be wrong.
I don't follow my own understanding. In fact I DO NOT understand how what I am saying is true in a practical sense. But by faith and not by understanding (mental sight) I know that what Jah creation is good and not evil.
Some of you are waiting for Jah kingdom to start and the Nyah Binghi law to be in effect. But I am telling you that the law of Jah kingdom is already in effect and has always been since man was created. The only thing remaining is for us to put faith in Jah and then we will see with our eyes what I already know by faith to be true.
I am not saying that I see it in effect, because I am still suffering from some illusion, as I have said. But the first step to overcoming a problem is to admit that the problem exists. I admit that my sight is confused and I admit that when I see evil and wrong things it is an illusion. So I know that I am on the road to full recovery.
So again, please respond clearly to the first point I made in this post. The rest is just to put everything in proper perspective so that you can see how I am putting the reasoning together.

Messenger: gideon Sent: 11/8/2004 9:59:01 AM

I want to respond directly to the statement that stealing is stealing and there is nothing more to it.
That is true. And stealing means taking something away from the rightful owner without his permission. And the rightful owner of creation is Jah, the creator. So that means that stealing is taking something away from Jah without his permission.
Do you really believe that this happens every day. Or is something wrong with my logic or am I building on some false premis.
This is a very short post so it should be a simple thing for you to break it down and show where I am using a trick to mislead, if that is the case. So go ahead and blaze it up on me if I am lying. But if you can't then let my statement stand and don't speak against it.
If you can't accept it but you can't fight against it then let it be and wait for more guidance....... isn't that good advice?

Messenger: Ark I Sent: 11/8/2004 11:43:58 PM

Gideon, you said,

I am saying simply that Jah is the creator, so whatever is created, or whatever happens, is his will, by definition. Before making any other comments please say if you accept that statement or not. Or do you think that things happen (i.e. are created) that are not Jah will?

This statement above sounds like a philosophers argument. Do we "accept the statement" you made? Who are we or you to accept that statement or reject it, what do we know about Jah that you think that we can define Jah with man's definitions to say that if Jah is this, then it must follow that Jah is that. We can't design a limit to fit Jah within, especially based on our own mind's thoughts, we are like a flower that fadeth, our knowledge compared to Jah can't even be compared by a drop in an ocean, because Jah is so great. When it comes to Jah, we can say this is possible or that is possible, but we can't say that this is so because that is so.

Jah created the earth, the heavens, vegetation, sea and land animals, humans and everything else that is. And Jah created humans with a mind that can choose and contemplate many things. Jah didn't create us as puppets, Jah created us with the ability to keep balance or upset balance. Jah created the possibilities that we have, and like I said, Life and Death are part of existence, they are not good or evil. What is good is keeping the balance and not using our abilities to upset the balance. When we use our abilities and power of choice to do things that are not of Jah, then we upset the balance and are dealing with evil.

Why can't you see the possibility that Jah created us with choice, and our actions are our own will and choice. Does it not fit in with your logic or definition of Jah, or theory of Jah or philosophy of Jah. Jah can allow us our choice or prevent us our choice or do whatever else Jah wants to do, because nothing is impossible for Jah, but Jah has chosen to allow us to choose, we fail or we succeed based on the direction we choose.

The reason I know that we have a choice is not because of philosophy or by the definition and logic of man. Sometimes too much philosophy can close your eyes to reality, because many possibilities can be presented to sound logical, but all of them could be false.

I know we have a choice because I choose. I have chosen to do things and I have chosen to stop doing things. I reason and weigh consequences, and Jah has also guided I, and I have chosen to heed Jah instructions and sometimes I have chosen not to heed.

I have also reasoned with people and influenced their choices by presenting reasonings they didn't consider, or giving suggestions. Sometimes they choose to take I advice and sometimes they choose not to take I advice.

A person could say to I "Is it possible that you didn't really choose anything, but Jah chose if for you?" But when I look at reality and my experience with Life, I see a choice and I have experienced choice, and Jah created I to see that I make choices, because otherwise I wouldn't see the choices.

So another person can theorize and philosophize all they want, to convince themself of this or that. Reasoning of the mind and theorizing to consider different possiblities is good, but I can't live my life by a theory while I see reality right in front of I.

A person can be convinced by one theory, but when another theory comes along with effective arguments, then they can be convinced of the new theory. This can go on and on, choosing each new theory over the old. But when we deal with theory, it is very possible that every single theory is wrong, and the person jumped in all these different places, but never left the spot where they started.

Ark I
Haile Selassie I

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