JAH - False Rasta,,them still deceiving the mass

Return to Reasoning List

Here is a link to this page:
http://www.jah-rastafari.com/forum/message-view.asp?message_group=209&start_row=31

False Rasta,,them still deceiving the mass

1 - 10

11 - 20

21 - 30

31 - 40

41 - 50

51 - 58

Time Zone: EST (New York, Toronto)

Messenger: NineMile2004

Sent: 12/16/2004 9:22:01 PM

I agree Gideon, and I agree Dreadnut.

We are all JAH, if we do wrong than we do it cuz we dont see the full picture yet, or dont even see past the beginning. We have to remember who we really are, we all know it deep inside, but it takes works, InI help and guidance to get started and faith to see it thru. I will always use works because they help staying righteous. they help because they help keep the mind disciplined by feeding the brain......we all tend to forget to focus and be disciplined, which is necessary to stay strong and righteous.
ok so we know that when we do wrong we do it because we dont know better at that time. So then of course we should only judge the act and not the person. we are ALL one. All of us at one point wore that shoe. I am saying and I hope everyone can agree, that we shall do good, spread love, guide and teach and have faith but also persist on justice at the same time. You can love and treat someone good and at the same time insist on justice. not all behavior and actions of InI's learning on our journey are acceptable. InI dont have to hate the person, rather we shall love them, since we are one we have to love, and help them understand their actions are wrong
and InI have to be responsible for our actions.

JAH RastafarI

Bergy

Messenger: Ark I

Sent: 12/17/2004 9:38:50 AM

Gideon, This is what I see as what Christ means when he tells I and I to believe on Him.

John 8

31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

50And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: gideon

Sent: 12/17/2004 11:46:46 AM

Faith is the only root. What you do is based on what you believe.
What you believe is not based on what you do.
Grace is salvation without works. This is the gospel of christ, the only hope of mankind.
Faith in works is rejection of grace - false faith.

Messenger: NineMile2004

Sent: 12/17/2004 12:35:23 PM

Blessings InI,

I still believe we shall be righteous and teach each other. If someone truly overstands the TRUTH they will be righteous with discipline and faith.

If InI claim to have faith but are not living righteous and in love, then InI faith is not true faith. InI can make mistakes but overall faith and righteousness go hand in hand. Gideon, I am certain that your starting point, meaning finding the truth consciously (we all always look for it subconsciously) was a mix of feelings that guided you as well as scriptures/works that suppoted or confirmed etc your first feelings/thoughts. If no told you about JEsus and God, you still would have thought of the divine but many things you learned from works!!
In any event, works are written by InI. So we must always look at them with an open mind guided by faith and with the knowledge that they are about the divine but not divine in itself.

I agree, InI cannot just read and accept, even though read and accept and live righteous is better than not knowing about it at all and not living righteous. We must truly believe in what we read is what we thought all along. Like many rasta wil tell you, Rastafari is not something you can join. You have to actively live it. The active part is very important. BUt to actively live it it takes faith that what u believe is truth.

Jah RastafarI

Bergy

Messenger: gideon

Sent: 12/18/2004 8:57:31 AM

Bergy, you said:
I still believe we shall be righteous and teach each other. If someone truly overstands the TRUTH they will be righteous with discipline and faith.

I agree with this statement. But what about those who do not know the truth? And none of us knows the truth fully yet. What do you say about the things that we do because of our ignorance.

If anyone depends on works to save them they are putting their hopes in the law. It means that if they break the law even one time, even in the smallest sense, that they have no more hope of salvation, because they have broken the law in which they placed their hopes.

It is true that when you have faith AND knowledge of the truth that your actions will always be right. But what if you knowledge of what is right but not the faith? That is a common thing to happen and the result is usually wrong actions. And what if you have faith but not the knowledge? Then your actions will still be wrong. So, are these two situations the same, then, since both end up with the person doing wrong actions?
No. They are totally different. The person who has knowledge but not faith is condemned because he does not have faith in christ, the source of grace. But the person who has faith but not knowledge is not condemned even though he does something wrong, because he is saved by his faith in christ.
Someone focusing on works will not see the difference between these two cases. But now that God has finally given me the knowledge to explain so clearly the difference, what can they say? They really have no excuse for still believing in the law (works) to save them. I really think that no honest or reasonable person can fail to see the truth of what I am saying here.
I am not saying that knowledge is worthless, it is a great blessing because knowledge is knowledge of the glory of God so that we can give ises. But knowledge can never save anyone, and it cannot make you do good works either.
But my main point that I want to focus on is that a wrongdoer who accepts christ is forgiven, saved. But a wrongdoer who rejects christ is condemned, not by his wrongdoing, but by his lack of faith in christ. Read the whole bible and you will see that is what it says. Paul explains these concepts more than anyone, but also the life of Jesus demonstates these principles. But those who do not have faith in christ and the gospel of grace will not be able to understand, they are blind. As I said, any rational person should accept what I said because the reasoning is clear. But many will still believe in works and so they will suffer and die. Bob Marley said he didn't know why, but that is the reason why. Lack of faith in Christ and the gospel is what causes people to suffer and die. Faith in christ is the only source of life - the divine vine.
Hence the judgement, death to all slavemasters and everliving life and prosperity to Jah children. A slavemaster is someone who does not accept the gospel of grace. They will always stick to the doctrine of works, which is grounded in despair, fear and hatred. Please examine it in your heart and test to see if this is true what just said.

Messenger: NineMile2004

Sent: 12/18/2004 12:04:48 PM

If we know the full truth at some point, in the sense that we can fully overstand it (and no it will not come from works, works talk about thruth but they are not able to give full overstanding, I believe that comes from the individuals overstanding of the complexity of JAH) then we wouldnt do wrong because knowing the full truth encompasses living as Jah meant us to. UNtil we get that full overstanding, everyone of us will make mistakes, I believe we need to try to pull more consciously and actively, all of us together on this goal. Dont get me wrong I fully overstand that we all "pull" all the time but InI see improvements can be made if we teach by example and guide by spreading the word, so InI that havent heard it yet out loud, consciously might change there mode to more actively trying, by discipline and faith.
We will agree that this is difficult and can only happen when we all have faith and therefore get a full overstanding. We are just the raindrop and can only do our part but all together we are the ocean.

It is not dividing if we make aware and set off peoples lights more brighter than before. In a sense trying to speed up the process to eliminate ultimatively making mistakes anachieve that by having faith in JAH.

BLessings,

Bergy

Messenger: Ark I

Sent: 12/24/2004 12:24:22 AM

Gideon, you said,

------------------
If anyone depends on works to save them they are putting their hopes in the law. It means that if they break the law even one time, even in the smallest sense, that they have no more hope of salvation, because they have broken the law in which they placed their hopes.
-------------------

That is not true, it shows in Ezekiel that if a person breaks the law, they need to repent of their ways and their wickedness will not be mentioned, but they will be remembered for their righteousness. So even those that are under the law have hope for salvation, this has always been so.

But I am not speaking about being under the law, I am speaking of the law being established. Those that sin are a slave to sin and are under the law, because there is a law against their actions. But for those that have faith, their faith in Jah will make their ways righteous, because they will listen to the voice of Jah when Jah directs them. So these are not under the law because no law exists that is against their actions because their actions are righteous.

You also said,

--------------
And what if you have faith but not the knowledge? Then your actions will still be wrong.
--------------

When I speak about faith, I see it as knowing that nothing is impossible for Jah and also trusting in Jah to guide I and I and provide I and I with what we need so that we have no want. So if a person has complete faith then it is impossible for them to do any wrong. It doesn't matter if they have no knowledge of certain things being right or wrong, if Jah speaks to them and they do as Jah directs, then they will not do any wrong, and their actions will lead to prosperity.

So I am not talking about trusting in works or depending on works or about works bringing salvation. I am talking about True and Complete Faith in Jah. How can someone have True, Complete Faith in the Most High and not listen when Jah speaks? If they don't listen to the Spirit of Truth that directs them in the path of Inity, then they are lacking in faith and they are also lacking trust in the Spirit of Jah. If they trusted Jah and had Faith in Jah, then they would heed to Jah direction.

Paul speaks about the importance of faith and grace but he also shows that when faith and grace is there, then righteousness is also there. And he shows that those that sin are a slave to sin and are not in the grace of Jah.

So again, as I have mentioned to the I many times in the past. I am not speaking about works being salvation. I am saying that what is on the inside must come out. So if there is faith, then the actions of the faithful must be seen, because that is something that comes from faith.

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: NineMile2004

Sent: 12/24/2004 12:47:38 AM

Respect Ark I,

I see the same truth that the I is describing. Meaning faith is there when the knowledge of the scriptures, teachings guide InI mind to follow JAH speaking thru InI. Put the theory to work, have faith and when all agrees within and manifests in and out, then we trully live in JAH way. I find this the hardest part for the many temptations of Babylon.

Jah RastafarI

Bergy

Messenger: Ark I

Sent: 12/24/2004 2:46:57 AM

The scriptures is a good way to learn of Jah ways. But Jah is capable of showing I and I how to Live without I and I ever reading the bible or other written scriptures. It is just a matter of I and I listening to Jah direction.

But until the faith is there to trod like that, the scriptures are a good place to learn the teachings of Jah so I and I can recognize the Jah voice that most of the world has forgotton how to hear.

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I

Messenger: NineMile2004

Sent: 12/24/2004 9:34:45 AM

Exactly I thoughts Ark I. Thank you for the last post.

Selassie knows it is tuff fi people to hear JAH inside clearly enough, so InI shall read to learn, strengthen and speed up the process. This said it also means the truth is in all of us, either InI clearly hear it without scriptures or InI use scriptures, I think InI can agree that the scriptures should be used heavily in some form to stay focused.

To Gideon in an earlier post: "I agree with this statement. But what about those who do not know the truth? And none of us knows the truth fully yet. What do you say about the things that we do because of our ignorance."

I say InI all are human and prone to err, and InI early in life (unless InI grew up with Rastafarian parents or highly spiritual parents) all were ignorant because Babylon may have had a stronger hold back then before InI searched the truth, and it still is in InI today for Babylon is strong and its Temptation big and deeply manifested within InI minds for many many years history.

InI shall protect Iselves from the mistakes of the ignorant and people with no faith and the hypocrits fi InI must know when to speak up and when to stay quiet, when to come and when to go. Mistakes need to be corrected through faith and discipline. it is ok to make mistakes because InI are not expected to be righteous but shall follow JAH which in turn makes us righteous.

Much Love,

Bergy

31 - 40

Return to Reasoning List